Ep: 050 Holodeck Fun: The Bride of Chaotica! (S3 Premiere)

[00:00:00] I think I'm saying that we struggle all our lives to answer it, but it's the struggle that is important. That's what helps us to define our place in the universe. This is Beverly, Dr. Beverly, Dr. Dr. Beverly Crusher.

[00:00:27] Look where we are. Here. All of us in this moment. So let's do what we've spent our entire lives learning to be. And this is Crusher Convo. Alright guys and welcome to Crusher Convo where we're crushing the conversation one episode at a time.

[00:00:49] Welcome to the season three premiere of Crusher Convo and I am very excited because I have amazing guests with me today from trekmovie.com and Star Trek enthusiast and author Lori Ulster. Hello Lori. Hello, Jessi. Thanks so much for inviting me. I'm so happy that you joined me today. I've been so excited to talk to you about this episode because it's not really a favorite of yours. And so that's fine. Well, I had an interesting experience rewatching it. So that'll be great.

[00:01:19] Good. Yeah. Okay, perfect. I'm glad to hear that. Real fast before I ask you my special trek question. We do have Damon right here. Hello, Jessi and Lori from the moon of Jagal and the temporary. And for real those things too. Like he was on those shows. Yep. He was. I hope to talk to Damon soon on this show. So I'm super excited about that. Yeah, that'll be fun.

[00:01:45] Yeah. So every season I have asked my guests a certain question. So the first season I asked why do you love Beverly Crusher for obvious reasons. Last last season, I was like, why do you love Star Trek? This one I'm kind of getting to know people. So what is your trek and why? See, that's a problem. That is a problem question.

[00:02:09] It could be a multiple, you know, because it's different things. It's just like if someone says, what's your favorite episode? Right. You want to say, well, it depends what mood I'm in and what I need and how my day has been. And so in that case, like I grew up watching the original series when that was the only trek and there was no hope of any other trek. Because the animated series wasn't on in Canada as far as I know at that time, like I couldn't get it.

[00:02:39] Oh, interesting. So I had three seasons that I just watched over and over and over and over and over. So in one sense, that is my trek, except that each the ones that have come that have been so personal to me, like, I mean, next gen completely was an explosion of perfection at the time, like just fixing to modernizing it, which was great.

[00:03:05] Because, you know, the original series was long gone by the time I was watching it.

[00:03:10] And so and then and Deep Space Nine had a whole other level of emotional depth, which I love. And then Voyager had my captain, my captain, among many other things. So it's I mean, those are my big ones, but those that's a lot to be your big ones. And, you know, and then I'm like, okay, and then there's Prodigy and Lower Dealer. Like, it's, you know, there's at least like you got your top five, right?

[00:03:37] Yeah, I would say like those when I'm looking for like my rewatch comfort track to it's all of those things. And then maybe, you know, a special dispensation for the musical episode of Strange New Worlds, because I could watch that all day. Now, to probably make this harder for you, who would be your captain? Like, who's your captain? Yes, you know, I'm down to three.

[00:04:08] Again, that's like, I got like, when people ask me, I'm also a Whovian. And they're like, who's your doctor? And I'm all like, well,

[00:04:16] right, it depends what's going on. Right? And I would say, I have used I like I remember once in a job interview, quoting having my the person hiring me described what he wanted me to be as a leader. And I said to him, Do you know who you just described? And he said, Who? I said, Captain Picard. And he said, and he said, and he said, and I was expecting him to say who? And he said, I love Captain Picard.

[00:04:45] You're like, Yes. So it's like, Kirk Picard and Janeway were, I think, part of my learning how to deal with leadership. Okay. Yeah, that means particularly Janeway, but all three, really. I mean, I like to say that my captain is Picard. And that's just because I got into track because of TNG. I mean, I could also say that technically, Beverly was a captain for a hot second, so I could pick her too.

[00:05:15] But I do like Janeway because she was the first female captain. And so you can kind of like her love for coffee. I was like, I'm more of a coffee girl than a tea girl. Right? Yeah, I'm a coffee girl too. And also, the thing about her leadership is that it was very she took advantage of all the qualities that we have as women.

[00:05:36] Mm hmm. And those made her a better leader. And we've been told those qualities make us worse leaders, and they don't. And they don't. And it's funny, because I'm a manager, and my general manager is a woman, and my front desk manager is a woman. So we're all these women leading this this hotel.

[00:05:58] And the one thing that I have noticed is that we kind of have like, like Janeway had like that motherly, like she cared for her. Right? She cared for her crew deeply, like they were her children. And they even brought that up in Prodigy, when she was talking to Beverly about she was, you know, saying how worried she was for for the kids. And she's like, you're more of a mother than you realize. It's why they chose her for Prodigy. It's why she was the right character for it.

[00:06:28] Exactly. And then also, but she was also firm. Like if she knew someone was making a mistake, she would point it out and be like, this is why it's wrong. She'll be empathetic and sympathetic, depending on the situation. But she also was like, put her foot down when she needed to.

[00:06:45] And imagine if she was disappointed in you, how you would feel, right? Like, here's, I hate to say it, but here's a bit of my problem with Captain Pike, although I love Anson Mount, you know, and I think he does great. But I think the way they've written him is that I feel like if you disappointed him, he wouldn't make you feel bad at all. He would just be like, well, next time.

[00:07:10] And I feel like, you know, maybe you should be a little bit, a little bit intimidated by your captain. Right. But Una, if you disappointed Una. Yeah. Well, she would just shoot you daggers. You don't want the daggers. You would hide. You would go hide. You would hide. Yeah. Damon did say, because I mentioned how Bride of Chaotica is not a favorite. He says, well, at least you're not reviewing Code of Honor. Oh, God.

[00:07:38] I don't think I'll ever review Code of Honor on this show. Well, I don't think I'll, it's not an episode I'm eager to watch again. Are you talking about Bride of Chaotica? No, I'm talking about Code of Honor. Okay. Yeah. It's definitely not on my list. I mean, if it's on TV, like on Pluto, I'm just like, all right, it's playing, but that's, that's about it. But like I mentioned, we are going to be talking about Bride of Chaotica and also Holodeck Fun.

[00:08:06] So first, let's go ahead and jump in and talk about Bride of Chaotica with this clip. Somebody is going to have to take on her character. Who'd you have in mind? Oh, no. It's the role of a lifetime. Captain, need I remind you that we have exhausted all other possibilities of escaping this layer of subspace? Until we can eliminate those distortions, we're trapped. Think of it as Starfleet's first encounter with Planet X. Thanks.

[00:08:36] Captain, it won't be so bad. I can explain to you what you can expect. I can tell you. All right. All right. I'm a size four. Oh, I love that scene. So Bride of Chaotica, transdimensional phototonic life forms on an exploratory mission. I can speak. I can speak. Because I'm tangled in a war with the characters from Captain Proton after mistaking Voyager's holodeck for reality.

[00:09:03] I picked that scene because I had heard about Bride of Chaotica and it took me a really long time to get through Voyager. Just stuff happened. And like, finally, I was getting through it. And I got to Bride and I was laughing so hard because Kate was just like, she played Janeway so annoyed. Like, oh my gosh, my kids are playing in this holodeck and now I have to go play along.

[00:09:29] Her role in her eyes, the way she looked at Seven when she's like, just think of it, first contact. She's like, thanks. Like, it doesn't make me feel better, you know? Absolutely thought that was hilarious. But I think she kind of got into character a little bit when she got in the holodeck. Well, I think that, I mean, first of all, she had a blast, I feel like, in every part of this episode. You're right.

[00:09:56] All the scenes where she's annoyed, Kate is having a great time. And then when she's being arachnia, she is having the time of her life. Like, just really leaning into it. And it's one of those things where, like, she's having so much fun that you want to have fun with her. And then I was listening to Brian Fuller talking about the episode and he said that there was

[00:10:23] a lot of concern from certain people, not from him and not from the director, about that she was overplaying it, which is interesting. So, I mean, we can get to that later for when we're looking at scenes from there, because I assume you have something. But, you know, so that part is interesting. Oh, well, we could get into it now. Was there like a specific reason? Yeah. So he said, like, once she started doing arachnia, like, she just went all in.

[00:10:52] She decided, okay, I've got it. And I would have actually loved a scene of Tom kind of coaching her on the mannerisms and the style of how people spoke in it. Yeah. Because that would have been a fun scene. I would have enjoyed that. But because she but she goes in and she plays it like she's watched these serials her whole life and just starts doing it. And it's so it's directed so well.

[00:11:16] But so like the higher ups, some of the higher ups were concerned that Captain Janeway, that it was out of character for Captain Janeway to be vamping it up so much to have it turned up to 11, so to speak. And Brian Fuller didn't feel that way at all. And Alan Croker, who was directing, loved what she was doing, like loved it. Yeah. And she was, you know, and then Robbie said, because I listened to him talk about it.

[00:11:45] And Robbie said, like his trailer, you know, was across from hers. He goes, if she got a phone call, I heard every word. And there were calls. And she was like, what the fuck? Are they? Do they not realize what I'm doing? So but I mean, fans love it and have embraced it. And so, you know, it's like a cult classic. And the thing is, though, is that even when Janeway is playing, you know, the spider, you know, the bride, she arachnia, she there's moments.

[00:12:15] Where she like rolls her eyes. Right. Yeah. Almost like the office. Like she's looking at like she's reacting. Yeah. And like, she's like, this is ridiculous, but I have to stay in character. Now, if this was Beverly, she would have been so into it. Right. It actually fits Beverly's character perfectly. And they all like to like go and pretend to be other characters. Right. In the holodeck. I mean, Janeway loves it.

[00:12:42] The thing, this is the thing Robbie brought up that I have to, it's something I used to think about all the time when I was watching SPU and shows like that. Because he's like, so you have actors and they're playing, let's say detectives. And then the detectives have to go undercover. So how good are the detectives at acting? And how good should the detectives be at acting? And does that reflect that they're good detectives or that they're good actors?

[00:13:06] So when you have characters going into a role playing situation, you have to make the call. It's a tricky thing. And what he said that I thought, and sorry, I'm just talking about his interview, but what they said that was super interesting was that they wish there'd been more direction, like supervision in terms of how to calibrate who should be into it and who shouldn't. And they made their decisions themselves. Like Garrett decided he should be the guy who's not quite all in, you know? Yeah.

[00:13:36] So, but Kate went all in. And I have to say like, who would ever begrudge her having a really fun shoot for her work? Right. But I think it balanced itself out because we saw Janeway so just, oh my gosh. Like as, as a captain, she could have just like seven, you're doing it. Right. She could have been like, I'm not doing it at all. Someone else do it. Right. She even kind of looked at seven, like, oh, she could do it. Oh yeah, no. She totally thought she was going to get one of the others to do it. Exactly.

[00:14:06] But then she just was like, oh, fine. And she was just like, I'm a size four. Right. She was just like, let's get this over with. Size four. I wish she'd just said, my measurements are in the database. That would have been nice. Right. Or, or even make sure it fits or something. Something like that. I did like the scene between her and Tom when they were walking, he was trying to give her a quick rundown about how Captain Proton and Chaotica and all that stuff.

[00:14:36] And when he mentioned the pheromone, she's like, I beg your pardon. Those moments just cracked because she, this was totally opposite of what her holodeck is, right? She's doing fair haven. She's doing, you know, little house on the prairie stuff, not 1930 cereals. Tom's going like, yes, ma'am. His army of evil. Like he's just trying to like check the things off the list. Right. It was, I just enjoyed it so much and I could see why people enjoy it so much.

[00:15:05] And what I also really enjoyed is, you know, the holodeck was really introduced or really explored more in the next generation. Right. And then with DS9, I think they took it up a step with the holo suites and, you know, those seem to be like even more like elaborate just because, you know, Cork wanted to make a big buck, a good buck. I just assumed they were mostly for sex. Probably. But, you know.

[00:15:34] But I guess they would go kayaking and do stuff like that. And play baseball, which. Yeah. Yeah. True. Which was a competition. Right. It was very, very important stuff. But with Voyager, that's all they had because they're stuck in a different quadrant. So this was kind of their escape. This was their way of just handling the situation. And they all had their different stories. But I liked just how. For one, it's still like the holodeck just seemed a little bit better than how it was in TNG.

[00:16:03] And two, but they also showed its flaws. Like this just kind of reminded me of what the big goodbye was. All of a sudden, something happened to the ship outside the ship. And it caused a malfunction with the holodeck. And everyone was going to die. This was kind of the same thing. But these are about, you know, life forms who, you know, mistaked the holodeck for reality. And so they were causing problems. And if they didn't do this, then they couldn't, you know, they could be blown up.

[00:16:29] So again, holodeck safety, still not a priority. Right. During this time. Like in TNG, it's established that the holodeck is pretty new in terms of being as good as it is. Like in that first episode, because Riker's just like, wow, like it isn't something he's experienced. But by the time of Voyager, it should be, they should understand about safety protocols. And they should be. There should be no such thing as turning off the safety.

[00:16:59] That should, why is that a setting? I don't know. Well, because that episode with B'Elanna, she took the safety protocols and that was a very dark, like depressing episode because it was talking about that she was depressed and was causing harm. And it was a very, you know, and I was like, that's not, that's not good. That's not playing. That's the, but that's the real answer to the question I just asked, because the real answer is for storytelling.

[00:17:27] It doesn't make sense, but it does work for storytelling and we've come to accept it because it happens so many times. Right. I know. It just, I still question, like I say, why are they still going to Riza? It doesn't seem like a safe place. Why are people still going to, why is that even a thing? Because it's so great. So great. Oh my gosh. Now we have 0.68 saying live long and prosper. Hello.

[00:17:55] No, but again, so you were all like hesitant, right? A chaotic. You said it wasn't one of your favorites as rewatching it. Are you like, this isn't so bad. Or are you still kind of. Yeah. So I went through a little bit of a transformation and then I understood why it is so loved. Oh, because as I was watching it, I was like, not only are all the actors having a blast and I love all the actors, so I'm so happy to see them having fun and making the most of it. Obviously, costume designers having a blast.

[00:18:25] Prop designers having a blast. Set designers having a blast. Director, playful. Doing so many playful, fun moves. Having a blast. So when you see that many creative artists together having fun and loving every second of it, it's a bit contagious. So, and then I started really, I realized that the thing I don't like about it is one thing and only one thing, which is that there are long, they feel like long stretches to me

[00:18:53] of just the Captain Proton story with none of our main characters. And it goes on. And I don't, I'm bored. I don't care. Like, it's just, it's cute. And the parody is cute when Tuvok is in it. The parody is cute when Harry's asking, what are we doing? It wouldn't be fun to just watch Tom and Harry being their characters in character the whole time doing it. I wouldn't find that entertaining. So, and it, and as you're watching, you're like, none of this actually matters. Yeah.

[00:19:23] It doesn't mean anything. And so I, I, that to me just felt like everybody was indulging so much that they just went farther into that realm. But every time someone was trying to figure out, you know, like when Tuvok was in it, that was fun. And Tom's reading the telegram and Tuvok is like, stop, you know, like that, all that stuff. I was like, okay, that is really fun and seeing how they react to it. But I just think it got, it got, it dragged for me.

[00:19:53] You know what dragged for me was the robot. Yeah. The robot totally dragged because you got it that that was the robot and you know it. I mean, Lost in Space had a similar, you know, and I used to actually watch the old Flash Gordon stuff when I was a kid, because this is so funny. A friend of my mom's was in a local commercial that aired during Flash Gordon. So we used to always watch it to see him in the commercial. Anyway, so random. That's awesome. Like it's the old, old serious.

[00:20:23] But anyway. I think like in the beginning with the robot, it made sense, especially when they found them all beat up and the robot is telling them what had happened. And, but I think it was too, like, like you said, kind of dragged what he's like repeating with them and everything and getting them annoyed. And it was just kind of like, yeah, really didn't mean anything. Right. Yeah. So that I, that right there, I was kind of like, eh, but I think just Kate alone for me, it was just.

[00:20:52] Well, and also like once she put on that costume, which I, which was a vintage costume, they didn't make that. They found it from that era. It's from that era. So the costume was so fantastic that once she was made up, how could she not be enjoying herself and, you know, dancing around. Though she fell for those, those damn containment rings. He warned her. Yeah. She didn't think about it. Cause she's like, I thought she even mentioned, she's like, I thought there's a safety protocols in the holodeck.

[00:21:22] He's like, well, yeah, but. Which is true. You don't want to get trapped. One thing though, I wanted to add. I did take notes. Tom Paris adventures reminds me of Picard with Dixon Hill. And the reason why is just because he's so into Captain Proton and reliving those stories and stuff like that, just like Picard did with Dixon Hill, just kind of escaping and doing something different.

[00:21:51] 1940s detective, you know, that whole noir stuff. We didn't get too much of that. We got like one, two or three episodes of Dixon Hill, but you know, you saw a different side to these characters when they're just playing around. Right. And I, I liked it for Tom because, you know, he was such a harsh character in the beginning because he was off at prison when he had to come and, and help them and things like that.

[00:22:19] And he had, he definitely had a character arc this whole seven, seven seasons. So that was fun. And he did build a relationship with Janeway. And that I think was also fun to see and his relationship with, you know, Harry and all that stuff. So I, I definitely loved that. I mean, I had the same issue with Dixon Hill, to be honest. When it was too much in the Dixon Hill story, I was like, this story doesn't matter. And it's not that interesting.

[00:22:48] And because it's meant to sort of parody a genre, it's doesn't have depth in itself because it's doing what it's supposed to do. It's not, it's, that's not even a critique because I think that's exactly what it's trying to do. But I'm here to watch Star Trek. Like I'm watching Voyager, not Flash Gordon. Like, I don't like the Deep Space Nine episode. That's the James Bond episode.

[00:23:14] Well, first of all, I'm not a James Bond fan, but second of all, none of it matters. Elysian Kingdom, same problem. None of it matters because they're not, at least in the Deep Space Nine one, you have Bashir knows he's Bashir. Like you need, you need someone who's not in on it, who is responding to the weirdness of what's going on. Like bring Guinan into Dixon Hill, which she does. Yeah. She's like, what is this? Five minutes.

[00:23:43] That is more fun to me. Five minutes. Yeah. And I even remember talking about that episode and it was like, that was kind of shoehorned in because it did not matter. It was like, we just have Whoopi for like a day. So let's just throw her in Dixon Hill. We'll have the scene and then, you know, go on our merry way. Commodore Trev is in the chat and he says, does this mean we might get boring as a, as a arachnia at STLV? Oh, Trev, you know better.

[00:24:12] You know, I am not a cosplayer. You know, I am not a look at me gal. I'm the same way. I'm a t-shirt girl. That's why I have little Riker. Yes. And mini Bev, they will be reuniting in August. So, you know, it's funny. I did a TikTok video to just kind of get Penny for your thoughts for people to chime in. And they actually had a little gif of a mini Riker just kind of moving. And so when I mentioned your name, he popped up.

[00:24:43] I love it. I was like, this is perfect. Aero Point says the robot was a little too meta. They got a little too self-aware for their own good. I get that it's an homage to the genre, but it still needed to be an episode of Voyager. Exactly. Well, I need an applause button. Yeah, exactly. It still needed to be an episode of Voyager. Trev laughed and he said, had to ask. It's always good to ask. You never know what the answer might be.

[00:25:13] Oh, I want to mention the doctor real fast. He had a very small little part, but I do love when the doctor kind of gets to do something different than just be the doctor. Right. And I thought that was important for him because he's like, it's like, I get to help save the day kind of like attitude and everything. And his role was important because he needed to get the aliens to be convinced that they were helping him. But yeah, his little moment was fun. I do enjoy doctor moments, especially how much he's grown as a character.

[00:25:43] One, they could have created any photonic being that they programmed. Didn't have to be him. They could have just made one to talk to them. That they operated from whatever. But anyway, so there's that. Yeah. Okay. So, and I always love when B'Elanna goes up to the mobile emitter and she just like pokes a little tweezer in there a couple of times. And now she's completely changed his whole look when he goes in, which is great.

[00:26:13] She didn't have a lot of scenes. No, she didn't. I mean, a cool thing I've been learning about the, that era of Star Trek was that if they, they wanted everybody to get residuals. So they would give people a scene so that they would still get residuals for the episode, which is nice, which they clearly do not do on the modern shows. Right. Right. I remember, you know, when Gates was pregnant in the fourth season, she'll have just one

[00:26:42] scene so she can get the residuals. But the very last, for the season finale, when Worf is leaving, her only scene is her standing in the room while he's about to leave. Her just standing there. Right. Crying. And then walked away. Yeah. Easiest day ever. So. Well, it's like relics, like Troy is in it. I think she's just in like the last scene or something.

[00:27:10] And she hugged Scotty and we're like, we didn't even see you guys have a conversation. Because they actually cut her scene, I think. Oh, yeah. Wasn't she? Oh, no. I think you're right. For some reason, I thought she was in sickbay. But no, she wasn't. I don't think so. Yeah. That was Beverly George. Because when they hug, it's weird. Because you're like, we haven't seen you have any interaction whatsoever. Now I'm never going to see that episode the same again.

[00:27:39] I, you know what I loved about relics though, is that it was genuine love from the actors to. It's James, right? I could mind disappearing. I played Scotty. James doing. Yeah. Yeah. He, they were just so enjoyed to be like, he's on our set, you know? And you could see just the genuine joy on their face as, even though they're playing their characters, I feel like that just came like from the actors.

[00:28:07] Like they were just so excited to have him. I didn't really get that when, and I know with Spock, with Leonard Nimoy, he was only with Picard and Data. He wasn't with anybody else. But I didn't really get that excitement. Like this is a character. It's interesting. Like, I do think relics also had a really good, Scotty was back for a reason. And there was a story in there about like getting old and feeling like you weren't useful anymore.

[00:28:35] And your golden era and all that stuff. And then I think they, they didn't give Spock a great story. I agree. I'm not a fan of, of those two, those, that two-parter. I know everyone loves it because it's Spock, but even the, the Sela scenes, I'm just like, they kind of shoehorn her in again. Yeah. It's, yeah. It's, it's not. And then you never see her again. It doesn't, it, it lacks a certain depth for sure. Yeah.

[00:29:03] And I just, and I feel kind of bad because, you know, Spock is such an important character. I did enjoy with his dad seeing him so far gone. Yeah. Yeah. That disease. With Sarek. Yeah. Yes. And the acting was really good. Yeah. And the acting, and he, didn't he die not long after that? Yeah, that would make sense.

[00:29:30] And so, so seeing that just made it like, ooh, but yeah, he did amazing in that, but that's kind of like it. I'm not a huge fan of that episode. And even with like, um, Bones with McCoy, they made him 137 years old. They made him in the first episode and it was just like. And I could do with a, like, treat her like a lady. I was like, no, I mean, I love McCoy. I love him so much, but it's just, yeah.

[00:29:58] But I was, I will say I was thrilled to see him. I remember watching it when it premiered. I'm sure. And I was just like, you know, over the moon because I love him so much. You know who would have been amazing to have on TNG, especially having, you know, a counselor on the ship and the first woman, uh, medical officer would have been Uhura. Yeah. I would have loved to see Uhura just show up for whatever reason. And she did visit the set. Yeah.

[00:30:27] Cause they were taping at the same time of like what six and TNG, weren't they? Well, no, well she visited. It was, I think when Mae Jemison was there. Oh, that's right. She came to visit. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. That was cool. That was cool. That's in the first season, right? Well, it's second chances. Did he have the, he has a beard, right? Second chances. Just K. JK. Second chances was, I want to say. I think that's the episode.

[00:30:57] Okay. Yeah. Now I got to look back. So it'd be later. It would be later. Yeah. So going on from Bride of Chaotica, we do have our own favorite holodeck episodes. And this is called holodeck fun. And we're going to have some fun and even have some honorable mentions. So I'm going to start with you, Lori, on your favorite. And I decided to do a clip of our favorite. So then we can kind of just see why we love it and talk from there.

[00:31:26] So yours was The Killing Game from Voyager.

[00:32:04] We've got to stop meeting like this. You're supposed to be the finest hunters in the quadrant. Why don't you find us something a little more tasty? I picked that clip because Harry was a smart ass in that scene. You don't see that very often, but I kind of enjoyed it. So why is The Killing Game your favorite holodeck episode? I love it because even when they first of all, I thought it was a super creative, interesting idea.

[00:32:30] And then even when they are characters, they retain so much of who they actually still are. Like Janeway in her white suit running a club. Seven, who has this exterior of this singer, but is this hardcore fighter underneath. Tuvok, security, monitoring people right at her site. Like Balana tinkering with equipment.

[00:33:00] It's so, everybody is still so them. And they don't get too far into the details. They just give you enough that now you have a sense of, okay, here's what they believe. Because they need to sell you on the concept. So I think the details of it are really fun. They don't overdo the fakiness parts. The stakes are very, very high. Like there's a brutality to this.

[00:33:27] Where that even though they're, you know, stabbing them and doing things to them and then repairing them in sickbay, that's pretty hard to do on the body. That is not, no one's walking away without scars. So they found a way to have fun and have the stakes be really high and be unique all at the same time. Now, were you happy that this episode was a two-parter? Or do you think they could have done it in a one? Yeah. No, I think they did a really nice job and the pacing was really good. Yeah.

[00:33:56] I think one of the issues that TNG had is that we didn't have more two-parters. I feel like certain stories were kind of rushed. And, you know, and then some stories feel like they didn't need the two-parters like Gambit. Or even the one-parter. Exactly. Exactly. Well, every series has those. Yes. But like Gambit, I felt dragged. Yes. It's a decent episode.

[00:34:26] That is not a two-parter. That is not a been a two-parter. No. No. However, I feel like maybe – oh, I can't think of the name. Ah, this is what happens at the end of my week when I'm busy. Brain's gone. I'll come back to that. But there are certain episodes where like even the big goodbye, like just because the stakes were high because they got trapped in,

[00:34:51] they might have been able to show more on the Enterprise, okay, trying to figure out more than just Wesley being like, look at it and tell us, okay, if we just do this, we'll be fine. That kind of seems a little rushed, even though it's a favorite of mine, and we'll talk about that in a second. There are certain episodes that I think – or like Conspiracy. Loved Conspiracy. Yeah, that needed. That should have been – even though it's great, it would have been so cool to have a two-parter. They would have actually –

[00:35:21] If they were doing it now, they would have started planting the seed early and then paid it off in an episode. But they would have had little bits and pieces of it. Yeah, which they did luckily with coming of age because that Admiral had come and said, I feel like something's going on. I don't know. So that would be – Yeah, yeah, yeah, true. We did have it later, which we didn't get very much of. Yeah. So it was nice that they had those moments.

[00:35:46] And then also even with Elementary Dear Data, as much as that's a very campy episode for Data, it's my husband's favorite. And it's just because he loves Moriarty, he was very happy that they brought Moriarty back. And it had to do with Barkley a little bit, who's a holodeck. That was a good episode. That was a good story too. Yeah. I really like those kinds of stories where it's like, and what if this crazy thing happened? Exactly. And you're like, I don't know.

[00:36:14] And it did, which I think kind of having with Moriarty kind of paved the way for Vic Fontaine. He knew he was understanding that, yes, I'm a holodeck character. I'm not real. Right. It was important to the characters that came and visit him. Now, Moriarty was being a villain character. He was, of course, thinking about himself. But that, I think, kind of helped pay the way for Vic Fontaine. Yeah.

[00:36:44] But, yeah, The Killing Game is a really, really good episode. I do enjoy it. And this, Roxanne Dawson was pregnant in this episode, right? I think so. I think she was, which I know they were hiding her pregnancy, obviously, throughout the series. Yeah, she was pregnant. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, so that they could, yeah, Killing Game was a great way to let her be preggo.

[00:37:12] Just pregnant, right? So I thought that was fun. And because the Hirogen, that was also another way of kind of, because didn't we see the Hirogen first when? We'd seen them a few times already, and we will see them again in what happens as a result of this episode. Right, right. So I thought that's like planting the seed. Because it's also about, like, their species and how they can.

[00:37:40] Because, you know, it's an interesting thing about Star Trek that you often see these almost one-note species sometimes where it's like their thing is this. And then it works in an episode, but it doesn't work if you think, well, how do you sustain an entire culture with that? And this, they ask, the Hirogen themselves are asking that question. This has been our culture for this long. Is it still something? Is it still viable? And maybe it isn't, but what do we do with the fact that we still have all these instincts? So how do we adapt?

[00:38:10] And one of them has this idea that this is how they're going to adapt. And then, of course, what we find out later is something goes terribly wrong. So it raises interesting questions, too. And I love when Star Trek asks questions like that. Didn't they have that kind of similarity with the Jem'Hadar on Deep Space Nine where some of them, because they were created to just be warriors, right? Just to be. Yes.

[00:38:37] And then all of a sudden later, it was like, why are we doing this? You know, it was kind of some of them were kind of having their own conscious in a way of just being like, wait a second. And it asked a lot of questions, I think, in different episodes of Deep Space Nine, like one where they find that baby and they don't know what it is. But it turns out it's a Jem'Hadar and that raises more questions and asks complicated questions that don't have clear answers, which is right. Yeah. It's great enough. Yeah, that's really.

[00:39:07] Yeah, I enjoyed that a lot. So my favorite is I've already mentioned it a few times and I'm still going to show a clip because I love this scene. So it's the big goodbye. Hiya, Doc. What's cooking? You know, I had some trouble getting through. Where's Captain Picard? He's on ice. Pardon? He's being grilled. What is he, a fish? He's being interrogated. They think he committed a murder.

[00:39:39] Why aren't we all being interrogated? Maybe I should go and help him. No, no, no, relax. Relax. He's having the time of his life in there. Well, why should he have all the fun? I know for a fact Gates had so much fun. That's great. I actually laughed out loud watching that clip. She got to do her little, you know, trick there of almost falling over.

[00:40:04] And what I love about this scene, of course, data is going too far, which is normal for data, which is fine. And, of course, the historian has to reel him in. But what I love about Beverly in this scene is where she's, like, really excited. Like, oh, I want to be interrogated, too. And then when she's not the chance, she switches, like, well, that's not fair. She has, like, a little bit of an attitude. Then there's that question of holodeck safety.

[00:40:32] All of a sudden, the historian gets shot. You're like, what the heck? And trying to balance of, like, these holodeck characters don't know that they're not real. They're following a story. Here's a guy, like, how do you even try to do that? And what was good is that they did attempt out of character and be like, this isn't real because they're trying to stop the situation. But because it's a story, the characters are like, yeah, okay.

[00:41:02] Yeah, but I just found it so fun. And I just love that it was just different. I mean, you know, again, I didn't grow up with Trek. And so I grew up with soap operas. So any trope, I'm all for it. You grew up with some soap operas. Yeah, you know, so I'm, like, totally fine that, you know, Beverly hit her child for 20 years. I don't care. It's like, you know. The child Kelly has an evil twin somewhere. Probably. Who knows?

[00:41:30] I mean, honestly, when we were trying to figure out of, like, why was Beverly gone and there's possibly a child, I actually went as far as saying, like, she had a child. They thought it died. 20 years later, they found it still alive. Like, I went so proper. They didn't make it that complicated. But I think in this sense, again, the actors were having fun. It was something different. You know, she got to do her little comedy chops. Brent got to do some comedy.

[00:42:00] I love the part when she's like, I need some light. And he pulled the lamp. And it unplugged. And he's shaking it. And he's looking. Because he doesn't know what it is. But Picard knows. Because he's read the novels. And he's done this stuff. And he plugs it in. And Brent smiled. Or Data smiles. Like, oh, I fixed it. And brought it back. Like, those little moments are just joyful to watch. Is the story great? No.

[00:42:27] But the actors make it enjoyable. And that is where I absolutely fell in love with that. But yeah. I had fun with that episode. Especially when I was first watching season one. My husband. Actually, everybody. But my husband was very. Just get through season one and season two. After that, it gets better. And I'm like, all right. One of the other gems in those first two seasons. That's what I'm saying. I mean, there's no problem in season two.

[00:42:57] So it definitely drops a gem or two. But it has some great. There are still some great episodes. There are some great. I mean, Measure of a Man. Like, amazing. I actually love pen pals. I thought that was heartbreaking. You know, even that Pulaski episode when she was getting old and almost dying. Like, that was kind of a way of showing of how she's a doctor. And, you know, Hippocratic Oath. The better patients for, you know. So I did enjoy those moments. And yeah.

[00:43:25] There was a lot of really good stuff in season one. So, yeah. Yes. There are some odd writing. And you're just kind of like, we got to get through it. A.K.A. Code of Honor. And they were finding their voice a little bit. Which every show needs a little time to do. Yeah. To figure out. And you know what? They had a disadvantage because it was very heavily written like original Star Trek. Right? For obvious reasons. Because, you know, Gene was involved and stuff like that. And he was making it too TOS.

[00:43:55] So they had to try and balance of like, well, you know, Picard's not Kirk. And Beverly's not Bones. And, but they're kind of being written that way. But they're not. And so that's very tricky. And I think for them, it took a little bit to try and figure out what was going on. And I think even Gates has said, you know, she, she left after season one and then was gone for season two. So coming back at season three, it took her a little bit longer to find that footing. Because she didn't really get that. Well, because they gave her scenes that have been written for Pulaski. Exactly. Yeah. Exactly.

[00:44:25] I mean, and she was kind of, and you know, of course they had to rewrite it a little bit. Like, oh, there's Wesley. But she was just like, it wasn't the same character that she was written in season one. So she had to find a whole new footing. And she was at a disadvantage because the actors got an extra season to find a footing of their characters. Right. All everyone else had season two so they can kind of navigate where their characters were going. So they were already ahead of her.

[00:44:51] And she, but, you know, as the pro she is, she was able to trek along. They had also pried Wesley away from her so that he was looking to everybody else as a parent. And then they didn't really get to explore that mother-daughter, mother-daughter, mother-son. I mean, he was supposed to be Leslie. So close. There you go. Yeah. No, the way that they could have. Oh, yeah.

[00:45:14] And I know that was a big disappointment where she wished for both of them that they really wish they had more. And she understood, like, she definitely loves those moments where, like, Wesley goes to Picard or Riker, whatever, even Data. But she's like, but I raised this genius kid. Like. Well, they, I will say they did it to her again in Picard because she's been protecting this boy. Right. For so long. Yeah.

[00:45:43] And then the minute they show up, the minute they're with Picard, everybody just talks to Picard. I will never get over Worf walking up to Picard and saying, I will protect your son. Beverly's standing right effing there. And he doesn't even look at her. And everybody's just like, Picard's son, Picard's son, Picard's son. And I'm like, Picard gave the sperm. And apparently some other things that he probably didn't want. Yeah. And Beverly raised him. Mm hmm.

[00:46:12] So she's always getting, you know, the shot. Until Prodigy decided, let's fix that puppy up. And took care of it. Because they are fans and they understand. I think also with just with Picard, I think Terry was at a little bit of a disadvantage because he was kind of already given a story of like, well, this is where the characters have headed. So finish. And so he's like, okay, I will do the best I can. And of course, Gaines had cut out.

[00:46:42] I mean, Gates had said that there are certain scenes that she was like, I wish they didn't cut it out. But they did. The one thing that I did love, absolutely loved, is that anytime Picard mentioned his son, so mentioning Jack, he always said, our son. Right. He never said my son. He always said our. He got it. He got it. And I will take that win. Will sometimes say to my husband, your daughter, your son.

[00:47:13] Because they're doing something very bad. Something, yeah. That we. I can't do that, unfortunately, because my husband is the stepfather. But I will say nature nurtures real people. Okay. She's been around them long enough. I was like, she got that from me. Oh, yeah. Arrow Point says that love these costumes. And yeah, like you had mentioned before with Bride of Chaotica, I'm sure the costume department was just having a blast. Oh, yeah. The best. Absolute best time.

[00:47:43] So I'm actually going to do a little snippet from Larry Nemechek's book. And so this is my Nemechek it out section. I remember when I shared that video to Larry, he's like, I'm a nebula. So. Go Larry. So now he's Larry the nebula Nemechek.

[00:48:08] He did write here in his book, the PNG Companion. I have the one, though, prior to the movies. It did say that the episode was jeered by TV Guide. If anyone doesn't know what TV Guide was, it was something that we had to look at to see what was going to be on TV. They had cheers and jeers. Cheers and jeers. And that was a jeer. That was a jeered. Yeah. He says, as it was too derivative of an original series episode, a piece of the action. Remember when like Spock and Kirk. Oh, no.

[00:48:39] I know. Yeah. I know that episode. Husband, baby. Yeah. I kind of forget for a second who I was talking to. But I'm proud of myself that I knew the episode. So kudos to me. A piece of the action. What episode could that be? Sorry. I've been watching it since I was 10. At least I knew. I'm kind of proud of myself. This is a comic turn that featured a planetary culture base in the 1930s gangland Chicago.

[00:49:08] Torme and most of the fandom disagreed. The writer felt that the comparison was based merely on the appearance of the three piece suits. Eventually, those suits were good enough to help snare an Emmy award for series costuming. And the big old buy was chosen by the George Foster Peabody Award board for it's the best of the best reward. The first for an hour long run drama. So take that jeered from TV Guide. And I get it. It's a campy episode. And that's fine.

[00:49:37] But it's not like a piece of the action. It's different. It's different. Yeah. And like you said, I think that that's the only reason they thought it was it was similar. Just the zoot suits going on. But we did mention our favorites. But we also have honorable mentions. And I have no clips. But I do have your list here, Lori.

[00:50:00] And so you gave me worst case scenario from Voyager and cost of living from the next generation. So why are these honorable mentions to you? Although worst case scenario is missing a hyphen. But anyway. Oh, my apologies. No, no, no. It may have been there. May have been them. Anyway. I love worst case scenario. First of all, they brought back Seska, which was super fun. They hated her.

[00:50:27] The whole idea that Tuvok had a security program that they thought was like a hollow novel. It was all the layers of it were just wonderful. So that's why I love that one. Because I love me some Voyager. And so just adding. It just was building on what they had. And then cost of living. The first time I saw it, I was like, ugh. Right? And then when I watched it again as I got older, I found it very poignant. Really poignant.

[00:50:56] And I also, and I thought Majel did a phenomenal job in it. And the work, the production design and the holodeck is hilarious. Yeah. And playful. And again, people having a blast. Creative artists having a blast. So when you add to me, it's the emotion because the emotion's really there.

[00:51:21] And the reason Luoxana thinks she has to get married and understanding responsibility versus love versus fun versus keeping your spirit alive. It was actually about a lot of things. And then given this great bizarro world setting. You know what I did love about cost of living? I really enjoyed the Majel and Alexander relationship. Yeah. Because poor Alexander.

[00:51:50] He lost his mom. He's thrown to earth. That he's thrown back to his dad who really doesn't want him there. The shit dad. Yeah. And here comes, you know, Loxana who is just, oh, a child. You know? Because she's feeling she's losing her youth as she's getting older. And so she feels alone. She feels lonely.

[00:52:16] And then here's this child who's very alone because he lost his mom. And he doesn't really know where he belongs in the world. And I think, and she gives him so much kindness that he's like, I want to go visit, you know, I want to go visit Loxana. And it's not just kindness. They're both trying to deal with expectations. And trying to figure out what their roles are and who they are. Yeah. And they're teaching, they teach each other something.

[00:52:44] Like she learns, she can't, you know, she gives him some bad lessons at first. Right? But she does teach him to have joy, which he is missing and needs. So I, yeah, I just, I really find it meaningful. And then just the details make it silly and fun. But there's a depth there. I mean, Majel is just fantastic. As you start to see, you know, Loxana later on, her character tends to change a smidge as

[00:53:12] her performances are more not, not just silly, like we first saw her, but really just pointed to the character of like, I'm getting older, things are changing. The stuff with Odo in DS9, I loved that. I loved it. I loved it. She was really annoying when she was first on. She was just like, you know, anti-name. Being locked on a try. Coming in up. Yeah. Like doing, and that's what they gave her. And it wasn't that interesting. And she got a lot more interesting later.

[00:53:40] And her acting rose to the, she really, really rose to the occasion. Absolutely. I also think it's possible it wasn't that long after Jean died that she did the episode, that episode. It's true. Yeah. Yeah. And I found it interesting that after Jean died, they kind of wrote her a little differently by really exploring that loneliness of being a widow. Right. Right. Because she kind of mentioned about how, like, and I think those emotions that we saw,

[00:54:07] especially in that episode with Alexandra, it was really coming from somewhere. Yeah, I agree. Very, very, very meta. So my honorable mentions, one of them you've already dissed a little bit because you're not a, I'm not a James Bond fan either, but I'll explain why I enjoy this episode. So take me out to the hollow suite and my man Bashir from DS9. First of all, I am a huge baseball fan. Huge. Like, up there.

[00:54:35] And I thought this was, I loved Cisco loving baseball. Okay. And I love that he had the baseball and he talks about it and he uses sometimes baseball as his way of like, in his way of being a captain and running Deep Space Nine. But this was just funny because some of the characters didn't really know what baseball was. Like, Worf was like Death of the Opposition. You know, those funny little moments. But it just, again, was a fun episode.

[00:55:04] It had to do with something that I thoroughly enjoy. And, and of course, you know, Rom got to be the hero at the end when he's usually, you know, the bumbling brother idiot, kind of how they made him at first. But this is where we see him going up. I loved my man Bashir because like you said, it was really nice to see that Bashir knew he was Bashir. Like he wasn't that character. I think Garrick was in that with him as well.

[00:55:33] But the story was that, okay, there's a teleport accident. We're going to lose their patterns. What do we do? Let's throw them in here to try and at least save them. Um, so then we can try and fix it and bring them back. Right now, of course, their, their cells had to be those characters in order to survive. And so seeing that, what was it? Uh, um, O'Brien had the eye patch.

[00:56:00] And, and then of course, you know, uh, Avery got to be really different from Cisco and Nana got to be, you know, with this accent and be able to, again, they were having fun, but with Bashir and Garrick, they also had to be like, okay, we can't let them die because this might happen, you know? So the stakes were high. So it was a little different. Um, so I really thought that that kind of a story was interesting as much as we didn't see much of the set of Deep Space Nine or anything like that.

[00:56:30] It was mostly in the holodeck. There was a story. Um, this one, I feel like was a little bit a better story than versus like the big goodbye due to the fact that I wouldn't have cared if that historian died because I didn't have like a connection to that historian, like, oh, yeah, too bad. Exactly. 20th century. Um, but the stakes are higher with my man Bashir because it was the captain.

[00:57:00] It was, it was, um, you know, O'Brien. It was all these important characters that we are like, oh no, what's going to happen? Now, the, the, was the only reason you don't like my man Bashir is just because it was too bond-ish. Well, I'm not, I don't like that genre. And I also find it frustrating that a lot of the genres they pick for these things don't have great, uh, spots for women. Ah. And it happens over and over and over again. And I just find it annoying.

[00:57:28] And I wish they'd pick something from a different culture and be like, this is old timey from a totally different culture. And women get to do all the same things that the men do. Which kind of was like the killing game. But the whole spy genre to me leaves like women are sexy and that's it. That's their whole thing. And I find that really annoying and uninteresting. That makes sense. Cause that was basically Nana's character. Yeah. The setting just doesn't interest me. Spy stuff doesn't really interest me.

[00:57:54] Like all that kind of thing is just not my thing, but it is for loads of other people. Right. My husband's a huge James Bond fan. Never was a fan. Didn't care about it. I just liked the story of how the stakes were high for these characters. Right. I just found all the, the play acting and the pretend, like I just, it didn't do it for me. Yeah. They could have actually done any different story. They could have done a Dixon Hill. They could have done a, you know, a totally different genre.

[00:58:22] I mean, same problem with Dixon Hill to some degree in terms of women. So you got the same problem. Yeah. You got the same problem with a lot of these scenarios. Mm-hmm. And I felt like they, they found the workaround in the killing game. Right. Janeway's in command still seven's running through the streets, shooting a gun. Like they're not limited. B'Elanna's still fixing stuff. Right. You know?

[00:58:51] And so they didn't necessarily have to pick something where women's whole thing was to be either sexy or scared or, you know, like Captain Proton. I mean, Arachnia got, but like Constance Goodhart is just screams. That's her role. And that is the type. Oh, yeah. That's not Star Trek's fault. That's, that is the genre and that's what it was.

[00:59:15] But so that's why to me, those are less interesting to revisit unless you, you just fake it and put women in all those places anyway, and pretend like it's normal. You know, it would have been funny. I was just thinking instead of having Janeway as Arachnia, if it was like Tuvok or Harry. I know. Well, you could have switched anybody for anybody, but she did. It wouldn't have mattered. I mean, nobody could have played it like she did. No, no. She had so much fun. Perfect.

[00:59:44] Alan Croker directed the crap out of that episode. Yeah, he did. Like it's so beautifully shot. And the way that he switches, the way he's shooting the scenes on the ship and the scenes in the holiday, it's just so well done. And it's so well done. Yeah. Yeah. But you're right. They could have switched it up differently like they did in the killing game. They were just kind of putting like, well, this is a woman, so we'll put her in this part. And this, you know, and it was just kind of thrown in there.

[01:00:10] Um, so I do have another segment before we start wrapping this up. It's called Tricorder Raid. So I ended up doing something a little different and I got one vote. Woo. Thank you to the person who gave me the one vote and they gave Bride of Chaotica five lightning shields. Um, so it was kind of interesting before I used to do voting on Twitter and I would get good amount of votes, right?

[01:00:40] People are like, yeah, let's go. Well, I left Twitter for obvious reasons. And last season I was because blue sky doesn't have voting. And so I had it on threads, but not everyone's on threads. So I also had to have on Instagram. And then I was all like, well, I'm going to have to do it on YouTube because they don't fall. So I had it like in three different sections and then I had to add the votes and then I had to like multiply this to get the, it was a lot. So I'm trying something different this year and it's on my Patreon where you do not have

[01:01:08] to be a member to vote, but it's all like, yeah, four days to vote. It's all in one place. Boom, done. And so I'm going to stick with it. But the one person that voted, thank you so much. What would you give the rating of Bride of Chaotica five being the best? And then one, one or two, uh, spider pheromones is the least. I'll put it, I'll give it a three. I would have given it a two. I would have given it a two a week ago. Oh, okay. I'm going to give it a three and a half.

[01:01:36] I feel so honored that giving you this episode, it helped. It changed my opinion of it. It did. It made me see all the good stuff. Yeah. And, and recognize that what bothered me was just one, a few pieces of it, but that overall it is, it, it is enjoyable. And the, it's the creativity, the creativity's there. It just isn't an important episode. Right. Right. It's not a big episode.

[01:02:05] The concept is sort of interesting, but they don't do anything with it because we, we don't follow up. And like the doctor doesn't say, I want to go live with these photonic beings, which later kind of does happen to him. So, you know, uh, but it gets, but for the artistry, it gets extra bonus points because everybody delivered a hundred percent. I give this for spider ships and it's all because of Janeway.

[01:02:34] I, it's all just because Kate just acted the hell out of this, just being Janeway and then Janeway having to pretend to be Arachnia. And I absolutely loved that. She, she did it so well. Like you can tell that it's Janeway playing Arachnia. Like it's not this different character. And so I enjoyed that so, so much. And I remember laughing my butt off when I was watching this.

[01:03:01] And I remember even, I think I was still on Twitter at the time and I was, I was like, Oh my gosh. Now I know why people, um, now arrow point says I would go four out of five. The story is kind of a three, but the amount of effort that went into recreating the kind of show gets an extra spider for me. I agree. I agree. Yeah. Like you said, I think the actors really elevated this episode. Um, as of like the actors, I would include the production designers.

[01:03:31] Costume designer, like everybody, every single person brought their A game. I mean, and, and like I said, with, um, um, the big goodbye, the story's not great at all. Right? Like it's not a great story. I don't even remember very well. I'll be honest. It's fine. I, it's only the Beverly scenes that are important. Um, but those are certain moments.

[01:03:57] Like I was mentioning about data with the lamp and, you know, Beverly tripping. And like those little moments just makes it enjoyable. The actors elevate this. Great. I love the scene you picked from it. Oh, she even like, she was offered a gum. She doesn't know what gum is. Oh. So she swallowed it. You know, the old sweat, those little moments where you're just like, ha, that's all right. And I'm very happy that gum doesn't exist in the future. Cause I'm anti gum.

[01:04:29] It's all like, at least I don't have to worry about it. No more gum on the floor or anything at work. Right. Like I'm good. Yeah. Random Lori fact. I hate gum. I hate when other people chew gum. Drives me crazy. Is it the snapping? It's the sound of chewing. So when, when people chew with their mouth open, are you like, excuse me? I want to, I need to kill them. If they put their mouths closed and I don't hear it, I'm fine.

[01:04:56] Like, I'm amazed that like Robbie McNeil used to chew gum on the Delta flowers until they terry ferramatum stop. But you never heard it and you never said, like you'd see, he never opened his mouth. I never heard it. And I have misophonia. So if I'd heard it, I would have been like, I can't listen to this anymore. Right. Not a nervous breakdown. So that didn't happen. But sometimes my beloved Jonathan Frakes will chew gum into a mic. He does. It's disturbing.

[01:05:27] I know. It's just, you know, they're, they're so like, well, it could be two things. Either they're just really comfortable. So they're just chewing some gum or it's a nervous thing. Yeah. Need to chew. But I just, the sound of the chewing, I have a problem that it, it messes with me and it makes me, it's, it's very, it's been a big problem for me sometimes. Oh, I'm sure. And I'm somewhere and I can't listen to it. Like I have to leave the room or I have to put on headphones and listen to music. I just can't. If I hear it, it makes me crazy.

[01:05:56] Is it like the same, like if someone's slurping soup or not as much, not as much specifically that, but it's like when I was a kid and people were like, oh, it's so funny. Cause it makes Lori crazy. I'm like, it's not funny. It makes Lori cry. Like that's funny. That is me with dolls. Right. Like if you have a fear, it's not right. If you have a phobia, it's not funny for someone to do it to. It's not funny. It's actually not shitty.

[01:06:24] My ex-husband would send me random doll photos just to piss me off. Yes. And I would go in full panic attack mode. And then he went and bought our daughter like this three foot Barbie. And I was like, he's just an asshole. Yeah. That is like, that's not okay. It's just not okay. No, but they were just like, it's so funny because it's just a doll. And I'm like, do I want to have a phobia of dolls? I know it's not going to kill me. Like, I know this, but. And it's different when it's just something you mildly dislike or, you know, and then it's funny.

[01:06:54] Like, you know, when many, many years ago, my, we were going to Vegas for my brother's wedding and Siegfried and Roy, do you know who they are? They are those. Yeah. So they were the big thing at the time at the hotel. And my sister and I were like, we don't want to support animal shows, blah, blah, blah. Right. So my, not only did my dad buy tickets for all of us, but he bought me and my sister Siegfried and Roy sweatshirts. And like, that was funny because we weren't afraid.

[01:07:24] So that was just funny. Like I will always, that's a good sense of humor. That's a good sense of humor. That's a good sense of humor. No. And I mean, mine is because of a trauma, you know? And so if, if people just, and I'll, and I'll explain it to people, you know? But it was all like, if that didn't happen, I probably wouldn't have this phobia, but unfortunately it did. And now my brain's just not, doesn't like it. And show some respect for the people you're supposed to care about, damn it. Yeah. I know.

[01:07:52] Well, I mean, my ex-husband didn't care about me. I was going to say ex-husband. Ex-husband. Yeah. So I'm going to go ahead into my redhead alert and start talking about the next few weeks of Crusher Convo. The next episode is Gates' birthday. So next week I'm actually going to be celebrating Gates' 76th birthday.

[01:08:18] And not only, and I'm, am I going to be talking about the character of Beverly, but the amazing things that she has done in her career. So join me in the chat. It's going to be pretty early. It's going to be on Sunday. So March 2nd, 10 a.m. Pacific Standard Time. And also Trek Talks is almost here because we have a new date. It is April 5th, first contact day with amazing guests and hosted by John Billingsley and Bonnie Gordon also raised money for the Hollywood Food Coalition.

[01:08:48] And don't forget that not only the proceeds of this design will go to the Trek Talks, but all the proceeds over at my TeePublic store will be donated. So please follow them on the socials for more information at Trek underscore Talks, or you can subscribe to their YouTube channel at Trek Talks Telethon. And my conversation with John will drop the week before Trek Talks on March 28th at 4 p.m. Pacific Standard Time. We had loads of fun talking about our cats.

[01:09:17] If pants are involved, he did answer that question, Lori. And why? Actually, I didn't even have to ask him. He brought it up himself. Yes, he does. This Trek Talks is oh so important. So you do not want to miss this conversation. And my Patreon shout outs go to Chuck and Leslie, who are my Commander Patrons, and Engineer Mark, who is my Admiral Patron. If you would like to support the podcast and enjoy exclusive extra content, just head over

[01:09:47] there to patreon.com forward slash crusher combo, and you can sign up for as low as $3 a month. Now, I do have this new little thing. I used to have people vote for my next episode. But I am actually going to be doing something a little different. And I'm still in this idea from Captain Quadrants. They picked their episode for their agony booth.

[01:10:16] And I think this is absolutely like hilarious. So I'm going to spin the wheel. And this is going to be the episode after Gates's birthday. So here we go. Oh, boy. The Borg versus the Crushers. So I was actually very excited about this because I just kind of had this epiphany. Oh, this wrong overlay.

[01:10:38] I had an epiphany about I was watching I Borg and how Beverly saved the Borg. And then I ended up screwing her over 25 years later. So I was like, this is kind of an important episode. So the Borg versus the Crushers. That is going to be the next episode. I have a special guest on that date. It's going to be from, I believe it's going to be Kenny from Trek Wars.

[01:11:05] His podcast is definitely talking about between Star Trek and Star Wars. So it's definitely fun. Definitely find them on YouTube. But super, super excited about that. And yeah, Lori, thank you for joining me today. And this was loads of fun. And I'm just so happy you got to join with me. And please tell the listeners where they can find you. Well, I'm always over at Trek Movie because I'm podcasting at Alexa Star Trek. And I write and edit at Trek Movie all the time.

[01:11:35] On social, I am Flubish, F-L-O-O-B-I-S-H on most places. I spend most of my time on Blue Sky, but I'm really kind of everywhere. And I have a website, LoriElster.com. Tell a little bit about this. You know, I don't know. It's a book you published, you know, just new accomplished author here. Gilmore Girls book.

[01:12:04] It's Life Lessons from Gilmore Girls. So love, friendship, and coffee. There we go. I've never seen Gilmore Girls. Oh, I think you'd love it. It's a great show. I've actually heard really, really good things. I've seen little clips. And there was like one clip where it was like how my brain works. And it was Lorelai where she's like, my mind goes here and does this. And I was like, that's a great show. So anyways, guys, thank you so much. Thank you, Lori.

[01:12:34] Thank you for those who were in the chat and those who were watching on Instagram. Season three is here. I got loads of ideas and interviews that are going to be coming up. And yeah, do not forget about that John billing. Actually, I'm not calling them interviews anymore. I'm calling them conversations because I like this. So yeah, me and John had a blast. And we did mostly like for the first 20 minutes, we were talking about our cats. So if you love cats, you're going to love this episode.

[01:13:05] But anyways, thanks so much. Live long and prosper. Have a good night. Thank you. Bye.