Ep: 037 "The Time Loop Enigma" featuring Patrick

[00:00:00] [SPEAKER_03]: I think I'm saying that we struggle all our lives to answer it, but it's the struggle that is important.

[00:00:07] [SPEAKER_03]: That's what helps us to define our place in the universe.

[00:00:10] [SPEAKER_02]: This is Beverly, Dr. Beverly, Dr. Beverly Crusher.

[00:00:15] [SPEAKER_02]: Honest.

[00:00:17] [SPEAKER_03]: Forceful.

[00:00:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Trusting.

[00:00:20] [SPEAKER_03]: Brilliant.

[00:00:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Strong.

[00:00:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Adventurous.

[00:00:26] [SPEAKER_00]: And this is Crusher Convo.

[00:00:30] [SPEAKER_00]: Hello guys, and welcome to Crusher Convo, where we are crushing the conversation one episode at a time.

[00:00:35] [SPEAKER_00]: Today, we celebrate Star Trek Day by getting stuck in our own causality loop.

[00:00:41] [SPEAKER_00]: And I am joined by a fellow trekker who's part of a fabulous trio on the It's Got Star Trek podcast.

[00:00:47] [SPEAKER_00]: Welcome Patrick, and thank you for joining me on this crazy loopy of an episode.

[00:00:51] [SPEAKER_05]: Hi, Jessi.

[00:00:52] [SPEAKER_05]: Thanks for having me.

[00:00:53] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm so excited to be here.

[00:00:55] [SPEAKER_00]: I am so excited to have you.

[00:00:57] [SPEAKER_00]: Now, I had you last season and we discussed the game, so I'm hoping this is a better episode for you.

[00:01:05] [SPEAKER_05]: This is actually one of my favorite episodes of Star Trek ever.

[00:01:10] [SPEAKER_05]: Ever.

[00:01:11] [SPEAKER_05]: Ever.

[00:01:11] [SPEAKER_05]: Not just TNG.

[00:01:12] [SPEAKER_05]: It's a great episode.

[00:01:13] [SPEAKER_00]: It is a great episode.

[00:01:15] [SPEAKER_00]: And I found out that this actually came out like a year before the movie Groundhog Day came out.

[00:01:21] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, almost exactly.

[00:01:21] [SPEAKER_05]: This was March 23rd, 92 I think, and Groundhog Day was February something, 93.

[00:01:28] [SPEAKER_00]: Wow.

[00:01:29] [SPEAKER_00]: See they were ahead of their time.

[00:01:30] [SPEAKER_00]: Like they just knew where they were going.

[00:01:33] [SPEAKER_00]: So this is perfect because not only are you on my show to discuss your favorite episode,

[00:01:40] [SPEAKER_00]: but I get to go on your show to discuss my favorite episode.

[00:01:45] [SPEAKER_00]: We're going to be talking about attached and that's going to be not tomorrow.

[00:01:48] [SPEAKER_00]: So super excited about that one.

[00:01:49] [SPEAKER_00]: So much fun with you guys.

[00:01:51] [SPEAKER_00]: Always a blast.

[00:01:52] [SPEAKER_00]: So today we are discussing the best of the best of Groundhog Day episodes in sci-fi and maybe some not so sci-fi,

[00:02:00] [SPEAKER_00]: but first let's start off with the best in TNG cause and effect.

[00:02:06] [SPEAKER_02]: My aunt Adele cured a lot of sleepless nights with this steamed milk.

[00:02:15] [SPEAKER_03]: Nutmeg.

[00:02:16] [SPEAKER_02]: Whenever I get insomnia, I try to perfect the recipe.

[00:02:21] [SPEAKER_03]: It was the eeriest feeling.

[00:02:22] [SPEAKER_03]: When the glass broke, it triggered the sensation even more intensely that I'd done it all before.

[00:02:33] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, earlier I was reading this book and I had the distinct feeling that I'd read certain paragraphs before,

[00:02:46] [SPEAKER_02]: but I assumed that I'd read the book years ago and I'd forgotten.

[00:02:53] [SPEAKER_03]: I've had this feeling for hours and then the voices.

[00:02:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, it could be nothing more than the result of a sleepless night, but let's be sure.

[00:03:07] [SPEAKER_02]: Have Data and Jordy run a ship-wide diagnostic concentrating on the time and place when you heard the voices

[00:03:12] [SPEAKER_02]: and we'll discuss the results tomorrow at 700,000.

[00:03:16] [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you for everything.

[00:03:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, thank aunt Adele.

[00:03:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Shocker.

[00:03:25] [SPEAKER_00]: That was the my clip that I shared with you guys today, but here is the cause and effect.

[00:03:31] [SPEAKER_00]: It was season five episode 18 written by Brian and Braga directed by Jonathan Franks and like Patrick said,

[00:03:39] [SPEAKER_00]: premiered on March 23rd, 1992.

[00:03:41] [SPEAKER_00]: You are a fan.

[00:03:42] [SPEAKER_00]: You knew the date.

[00:03:43] [SPEAKER_05]: I looked it up earlier today.

[00:03:47] [SPEAKER_00]: You're not supposed to tell your secrets, Patrick.

[00:03:49] [SPEAKER_00]: You're supposed to be like, no, I remembered it the whole time.

[00:03:51] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, no. Yeah. I remember it ever since I saw that episode live in 1992, which I did.

[00:03:57] [SPEAKER_05]: I started watching TNG on the regular as it came out in the third season, sometime in the third season.

[00:04:04] [SPEAKER_05]: So I definitely watched this probably the day it was first available in syndication in my area.

[00:04:10] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, that's what I'm going to ask you.

[00:04:12] [SPEAKER_00]: So when you first saw this episode, what was your reaction to it?

[00:04:16] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, I've loved this episode since the first time watching.

[00:04:19] [SPEAKER_05]: I would have been about 12 at the time probably had just turned 12.

[00:04:24] [SPEAKER_05]: And the, you know, I mean, it's been talked about at nauseam, but that opening teaser.

[00:04:29] [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, how do you beat that opening teaser where the enterprise D gets blown to smother?

[00:04:35] [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, it's amazing.

[00:04:38] [SPEAKER_05]: And it's, you know, it's such a unique idea for a time travel story, which I guess is where Brandon Braga has said in interviews that he was going for.

[00:04:50] [SPEAKER_05]: He liked time travel, but it had been done a lot of times and how do you do it in a way that hadn't been seen before?

[00:04:56] [SPEAKER_05]: Certainly it was not like a common thing that you'd seen.

[00:04:59] [SPEAKER_05]: And then of course to get Jonathan Frakes involved to give him the challenge of trying to do this in a way that's not boring, because you could imagine a version of this episode that would be visually and sort of structurally from a storytelling standpoint, repetitive.

[00:05:18] [SPEAKER_05]: And they managed to avoid that.

[00:05:20] [SPEAKER_05]: And that's really, really impressive.

[00:05:24] [SPEAKER_05]: And I think even at the time my young mind was probably just blown away, but as I've gotten older and gotten more interested in and educated in literary criticism and media criticism and things like that.

[00:05:34] [SPEAKER_05]: This is one of those episodes that it does not get worse over time.

[00:05:38] [SPEAKER_05]: It gets better.

[00:05:39] [SPEAKER_05]: The writing, the scene you showed is such a cozy scene and so well written fifth season between these two characters to watch them cozying up and giving each other a little bit of a time.

[00:05:50] [SPEAKER_05]: Whether sort of solace and advice.

[00:05:53] [SPEAKER_05]: It's it's just fantastic.

[00:05:55] [SPEAKER_00]: They literally hit all the nails in the head when it came to every little detail like mentioning with Pekrusher for instance, or even just Beverly, you know, noticing something or data or like every single person except for Troy and wharf.

[00:06:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Those two characters that really didn't have a lot to do with this episode.

[00:06:20] [SPEAKER_05]: But besides that, Troy at one point is even like, oh, don't worry.

[00:06:24] [SPEAKER_05]: Don't worry.

[00:06:25] [SPEAKER_05]: Everything's fine.

[00:06:30] [SPEAKER_00]: But even with, like you said, the direction of it every time they went into that loop, it was going back to the poker game.

[00:06:37] [SPEAKER_00]: It was going back to the her quarters.

[00:06:39] [SPEAKER_00]: It was Jordy at sick bay, like all that.

[00:06:41] [SPEAKER_00]: But it was just slightly different to make you not look away.

[00:06:46] [SPEAKER_05]: And you mentioned the you mentioned the poker game and there's almost it's almost like an in joke there.

[00:06:52] [SPEAKER_05]: I forget if it was Brandon Braga or Michael Pillars.

[00:06:54] [SPEAKER_05]: Some somebody on the show was mentioning that the poker game was something that they had been going back to a lot when they needed to fill some time.

[00:07:02] [SPEAKER_05]: They're like, oh, this script isn't like a minute short.

[00:07:04] [SPEAKER_05]: We'll write a poker poker scene.

[00:07:06] [SPEAKER_05]: And to the point where they actually had stopped using it as much because it had become a bit of a TNG cliche.

[00:07:12] [SPEAKER_05]: And so in this episode, not only did they get to use it again, but they had a plot purpose and they kind of just they just kept repeating it.

[00:07:19] [SPEAKER_05]: So the joke was they had to stop doing it because they were repeating it.

[00:07:22] [SPEAKER_05]: And now in this episode, they I forget how many times they did it.

[00:07:25] [SPEAKER_05]: What five, six times going back to the.

[00:07:28] [SPEAKER_00]: I think yeah, literally for each act.

[00:07:32] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that makes sense.

[00:07:34] [SPEAKER_00]: So I think but it was such a nice little touch and again, it's funny how I mean we had work in it, but we didn't have Troy.

[00:07:43] [SPEAKER_00]: And typically it's all of them at the poker, but it was only them four.

[00:07:47] [SPEAKER_00]: So it was interesting just how they put the characters in their plays and it worked so well.

[00:07:52] [SPEAKER_00]: And of course, I love it because Beverly Pressure is the hero.

[00:07:55] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm just saying she's absolutely the hero of this episode.

[00:07:57] [SPEAKER_05]: That's another thing that probably appealed to me to young me was and I think I probably mentioned this last time.

[00:08:04] [SPEAKER_05]: I was on your show was that I always looked up to Beverly.

[00:08:08] [SPEAKER_05]: She was sort of this, you know, the epitome of the problem solver and helper.

[00:08:13] [SPEAKER_05]: And that was very comforting and quite frankly attractive.

[00:08:19] [SPEAKER_05]: You know, it's just hyper intelligent, hyper empathetic person, but also intuitive.

[00:08:25] [SPEAKER_05]: And the thing about this episode is it hinges entirely on her intuition that she's one to start to realize something's going weird.

[00:08:35] [SPEAKER_05]: And has the tenacity and perseverance to just keep at it, not only in one time loop, but in all the time loop, she's the motivation actor.

[00:08:46] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:08:46] [SPEAKER_00]: And that's when a lot of fans say, well, now we know where Wesley got his special powers from.

[00:08:52] [SPEAKER_00]: There was always something that Beverly always had a sixth sense.

[00:08:56] [SPEAKER_00]: It was always, we always noticed it in a lot of episodes.

[00:09:02] [SPEAKER_00]: This one though really showcased that she really had an intuition and a good one.

[00:09:09] [SPEAKER_00]: And that's what makes her a good doctor.

[00:09:10] [SPEAKER_00]: That's what makes her a good mom and a good friend like she has all those wonderful traits to her character.

[00:09:18] [SPEAKER_00]: And this really highlights it.

[00:09:20] [SPEAKER_00]: Now, not many people think cause and effect has a Beverly Crusher episode, but especially because at the end it's like, data save the day.

[00:09:28] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, he kind of did with the help of Beverly and Jordy, but you know, it's one of those things where she really had a lot to do with this.

[00:09:38] [SPEAKER_00]: And they're following her of her trying to figure out what's going on.

[00:09:42] [SPEAKER_00]: Why does this seem familiar?

[00:09:43] [SPEAKER_00]: The whole deja vu constantly where she kept asking everybody questioning them.

[00:09:48] [SPEAKER_00]: Did you, I'm getting a little sense here.

[00:09:51] [SPEAKER_00]: Are you feeling me here?

[00:09:53] [SPEAKER_00]: And one Luke Jordy says no next Luke Jordy says yes.

[00:09:56] [SPEAKER_00]: So it's just interesting how some of the characters didn't follow through in every loop, but she was the consistency.

[00:10:02] [SPEAKER_05]: Absolutely.

[00:10:03] [SPEAKER_05]: Everything hinges on her and I've had that same impression as you that many people don't count this among like if you ask for a list of like top Beverly episodes.

[00:10:14] [SPEAKER_05]: Many people will ignore this episode even if they like the episode themselves.

[00:10:18] [SPEAKER_05]: And I think a lot of it is that they ascribe the solution to data's quick thinking at the end, but data is the one who was causing the problem in the first place.

[00:10:27] [SPEAKER_05]: Right?

[00:10:27] [SPEAKER_05]: He had the wrong idea.

[00:10:29] [SPEAKER_05]: I won't say bad idea just turned out to not be the the idea.

[00:10:33] [SPEAKER_00]: It was the reason why they were dying.

[00:10:34] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:10:35] [SPEAKER_05]: So he effectively, you know, covered up his own mistake.

[00:10:43] [SPEAKER_05]: I know he's an android is a sort of a typically white male thing to do.

[00:10:47] [SPEAKER_05]: He's an extremely white male.

[00:10:49] [SPEAKER_05]: I love data, but just very doctor soon comes out.

[00:10:55] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, it's very funny in this episode where it's like, okay, yeah, yeah, okay.

[00:10:59] [SPEAKER_05]: Yes, he was the one who resolved things in the very end.

[00:11:02] [SPEAKER_05]: But because of all the work that Beverly put in and it's not just the implied work.

[00:11:08] [SPEAKER_05]: It's the she's on camera that almost the whole time we see scenes of her alone.

[00:11:13] [SPEAKER_05]: I think she's one of the few people we see Picard alone in his room a little bit.

[00:11:17] [SPEAKER_05]: But for the most part, she's she's the center of the focus of this episode.

[00:11:22] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, exactly.

[00:11:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Now this is a good little segue for the ending part.

[00:11:27] [SPEAKER_00]: And so this is where I'm going to do my Nema check it out.

[00:11:35] [SPEAKER_00]: So as you said earlier, Braga who said he'll always wanted to do a time travel story.

[00:11:41] [SPEAKER_00]: With the cliche of the screwed up timelines called this solo story,

[00:11:46] [SPEAKER_00]: the smoothest he had yet worked on though it provided a challenge in drawing out the.

[00:11:51] [SPEAKER_00]: The subtleties of the very in time loops.

[00:11:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Now of course Kelsey grammar makes an appearance at the very end becoming the third cheers actor to enter the universe.

[00:12:01] [SPEAKER_00]: He says but his view screen scenes were all shot separately from the rest of the cast again using the old movie bridge set redressed.

[00:12:08] [SPEAKER_00]: The staff had wanted the first officer on the right of Bateman to be Kristi Ali as Lieutenant Savick but the scheduling couldn't be worked out.

[00:12:17] [SPEAKER_00]: So that would have been really interesting though to see.

[00:12:21] [SPEAKER_05]: Although it's kind of funny to that why wouldn't she be the captain at this stage right because it was I mean, I don't know if the timeline works out actually 2278 I unfortunately I didn't look this up.

[00:12:34] [SPEAKER_05]: I because I think that might be before Rath of Khan after motion picture before you're asking the wrong person when it comes to us.

[00:12:40] [SPEAKER_05]: Well in that case then she would have been a cadet and often have been on the bridge regardless anyway, I don't know.

[00:12:47] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean those are all fascinating thoughts there.

[00:12:50] [SPEAKER_05]: Your listeners and viewers they will they will know Nemechek we're going to Dr. Nemechek.

[00:12:56] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, comment below guys let us know that and I'm sure Dan and Jesse are going to be like Patrick.

[00:13:02] [SPEAKER_00]: What the heck? Why aren't you now I did I did want to mention so I have two scripts that I got these are legit scripts from producers and things like that and this one.

[00:13:16] [SPEAKER_00]: So I got cause and effect.

[00:13:18] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, that's so cool.

[00:13:19] [SPEAKER_00]: So there it is from okay you're gonna have to help me out here Renee.

[00:13:23] [SPEAKER_05]: At Javaria.

[00:13:25] [SPEAKER_00]: Javaria.

[00:13:25] [SPEAKER_05]: At Javaria.

[00:13:26] [SPEAKER_05]: With the caveat that I've only ever read the name and I don't know that I've ever seen heard somebody pronounce it.

[00:13:31] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think I have either which is probably why I freak out when you know as you heard earlier just trying to read Nemechek section I struggle with pronouncing words unfortunately but I try I do my best.

[00:13:44] [SPEAKER_00]: It's funny because it seems pretty straightforward as what we saw in the show and I think it's because there's really not much to change right because they had to kind of keep it consistent but not change it too much otherwise it would either be too drastically different or it would be too similar.

[00:14:00] [SPEAKER_00]: I would think right.

[00:14:03] [SPEAKER_00]: But of course you know I was looking at all of this and what was funny is Brandon Braga had mentioned that on the commentary for cause and effect.

[00:14:17] [SPEAKER_00]: He had he had done the scene and I was it was he with I think he might have been with Ronald D more.

[00:14:27] [SPEAKER_00]: But he had mentioned about that pico crusher scene that we saw earlier and he was saying he's like it was very cutesy and flirty right he's like I didn't write it that way.

[00:14:39] [SPEAKER_00]: That was just them.

[00:14:41] [SPEAKER_00]: He was like that was literally Gates and Patrick doing all of that.

[00:14:44] [SPEAKER_00]: And yeah there's really I mean.

[00:14:47] [SPEAKER_05]: But you know that makes sense and that makes the scene even more charming.

[00:14:52] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean when you're watching this though like it says for card hands are a cup of steaming liquid and then steaming liquid I guess they didn't know what they were nice milk.

[00:15:03] [SPEAKER_00]: No, well.

[00:15:06] [SPEAKER_00]: With the steamed milk they mentioned it she says takes a slip let it warms her she's like not make like we saw Beverly smiles then collects her thoughts which is you know what we noticed.

[00:15:18] [SPEAKER_00]: I think here, you know saying that she's feeling a little bit better she takes a sip.

[00:15:24] [SPEAKER_00]: You know she gives a gentle smile so I think there's little hints of you know I don't know what Brandon thought he was writing but they took what it said and they ran with it and appreciate that thank you Gates and Patrick.

[00:15:39] [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah I thought this was a gold mine I have this and attached so which I brought up in our conversation on your show, but it's just always interesting comparing the scene versus what was written.

[00:15:56] [SPEAKER_00]: I compare sub Rosa between the script and the actual episode.

[00:15:59] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh yeah.

[00:15:59] [SPEAKER_05]: I mean you know constantly just to, you know, and I mean, well because you talked about that not too long ago with Danny right.

[00:16:08] [SPEAKER_05]: And I mean that's a good example of one that does show up on a lot of lists and you know sometimes people say oh it's a terrible episode other other time as you argue there's there is very interesting stuff in there and particularly from Gates Gates McFadden who is just does a great job with what she's given.

[00:16:27] [SPEAKER_05]: And it's kind of interesting when you if you just isolate her performances across the whole series.

[00:16:36] [SPEAKER_05]: There can be clunker episodes there can be brilliant episodes like cause and effect, but she is always strong right she's oh every time and I think there's always such a benefit when an episode focuses so much on her for precisely that reason now this episode is very well written and the concept is really interesting.

[00:16:56] [SPEAKER_05]: So that of course adds to it.

[00:16:59] [SPEAKER_05]: But it is it has made so much stronger that because they could have totally done this with made it a data episode or a Geordi episode they have my reasons why they might be the ones to kind of figure out what's going on.

[00:17:13] [SPEAKER_05]: And I really enjoyed them being in the more supporting role where they were their strengths came to the fore, but they weren't the ones who were motivating all the action they were helping along as problem solving team members.

[00:17:27] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah and I think that was what was great too is that they were, as you said as a team they were working as a team they're working together she was trusting them to specifically because she's all like something's going on and they're going to help me figure it out.

[00:17:39] [SPEAKER_00]: And since Wesley had left the ship she be kind of became what a Cameron column like the nerd squad. Yeah, that was Cameron's way of calling him on green shirt there that they were the nerd squad it was data Geordi and Wesley.

[00:17:53] [SPEAKER_00]: Well Beverly took over for Wesley when Wesley left and so you always see those three working together because Beverly is not just a doctor she is also a scientist.

[00:18:02] [SPEAKER_00]: I love it when they highlight those moments of her. But like you said there's horrible episodes out there what is the one with when the bow breaks right so there's deep throat still in children right and it's kind of like okay whatever but her performance was great because you know she's trying to get her son back or even justice right.

[00:18:32] [SPEAKER_00]: You know she's trying to get her son back or even a justice for obvious reasons but she's like my son is about to die and she is in tears and she is desperate to try and save him and those are the moments from like this is why I like this episode.

[00:18:43] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

[00:18:43] [SPEAKER_00]: Because of those moments and it's the same with sub Rosa. I mean she just went off the script she's like, okay they're telling me to be a drug addict. Okay.

[00:18:51] [SPEAKER_00]: And that's what she did.

[00:18:52] [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm gonna go ahead and share though the clip that you wanted for me to show

[00:18:58] [SPEAKER_00]: and then we'll discuss why you like it.

[00:19:22] [SPEAKER_03]: Cross your commando forge.

[00:19:24] [SPEAKER_01]: The forge here.

[00:19:25] [SPEAKER_03]: Jordy, I just heard what sounded like voices in my room but no one else is here.

[00:19:32] [SPEAKER_04]: Sensors just picked up something strange too. We're checking it out.

[00:19:36] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm on my way.

[00:19:43] [SPEAKER_05]: Fantastic.

[00:19:44] [SPEAKER_00]: You have the floor.

[00:19:45] [SPEAKER_05]: Alright, well first I'm gonna take a little sip off of my little aperitif glass like Dr. Crusher.

[00:19:53] [SPEAKER_05]: Unlike her, I'm not gonna down the entire thing.

[00:19:57] [SPEAKER_00]: Because that was not Synthahol is it?

[00:20:02] [SPEAKER_05]: But one reason why I really like that scene, I like the whole arc of those scenes where

[00:20:07] [SPEAKER_05]: first she goes to bed and hears the voices and knocks the glass off in the initial time loop

[00:20:13] [SPEAKER_05]: and that's just creepy.

[00:20:15] [SPEAKER_05]: And it starts with her being so cozy and comfortable and then it shifts suddenly and it's so emotional

[00:20:22] [SPEAKER_05]: when you're watching it because you hear those voices and you're like Jesus what's going on?

[00:20:26] [SPEAKER_05]: And in this version of it, this is the best part.

[00:20:29] [SPEAKER_05]: I mean this is the culmination of that arc where she's doing all this amazing stuff

[00:20:35] [SPEAKER_05]: without saying a single word which always impresses me the ability of excellent actors to

[00:20:41] [SPEAKER_05]: convey so much through facial expression and body movement and just the choices they make

[00:20:50] [SPEAKER_05]: and where she puts the glass down in a different place than she usually does that sort of thing.

[00:20:55] [SPEAKER_05]: But then what's great is this scene, just like the first scene shifts from being

[00:20:59] [SPEAKER_05]: cozy and warm and comforting into creepy, this scene starts out as creepy.

[00:21:04] [SPEAKER_05]: She's upset.

[00:21:05] [SPEAKER_05]: She's disturbed.

[00:21:07] [SPEAKER_05]: As soon as the voices come in, instead of it continuing to be creepy,

[00:21:11] [SPEAKER_05]: she immediately springs into action and starts recording.

[00:21:14] [SPEAKER_05]: And so it's a mirror image of that first version through the time loop and this is

[00:21:19] [SPEAKER_05]: where she gets that data that eventually helps them ultimately resolve the issue

[00:21:25] [SPEAKER_05]: and figure out what's going on.

[00:21:26] [SPEAKER_05]: And again mostly done silently and then to top it all off breaking the glass anyway,

[00:21:34] [SPEAKER_05]: which I think is so clever.

[00:21:37] [SPEAKER_05]: And I think there's another thing Brandon Braga mentioned in an interview was that

[00:21:42] [SPEAKER_05]: one of the things that was the latest additions to the script was the breaking

[00:21:48] [SPEAKER_05]: of the glass motif throughout the whole thing, just to connect those scenes together.

[00:21:54] [SPEAKER_05]: I love that including in that very last one where it's just over audio

[00:21:58] [SPEAKER_05]: where they hear the data and Jordy hear her over the comm system break the glass

[00:22:03] [SPEAKER_05]: and they're like, are you okay?

[00:22:04] [SPEAKER_05]: And she's like, I'm fine.

[00:22:06] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm fine.

[00:22:07] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:22:08] [SPEAKER_00]: No, I like that one too because at this point she is sensing something is going.

[00:22:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[00:22:17] [SPEAKER_00]: That every little thing that she's doing in her room,

[00:22:22] [SPEAKER_00]: she's unsettled.

[00:22:23] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:22:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[00:22:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Just even like, oh, let me flip my orchids.

[00:22:28] [SPEAKER_00]: Nope, I've got to do that.

[00:22:29] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[00:22:29] [SPEAKER_00]: And she puts it down.

[00:22:31] [SPEAKER_00]: So what was interesting though, as you said, I love in this particular section,

[00:22:36] [SPEAKER_00]: I do love the wine because she was like, I'm going to put it over here.

[00:22:41] [SPEAKER_00]: Like she's trying to break that loop.

[00:22:43] [SPEAKER_00]: Not really isn't she's in a loop.

[00:22:45] [SPEAKER_00]: It's a subconscious thing.

[00:22:47] [SPEAKER_05]: Trying to do something different.

[00:22:48] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:22:49] [SPEAKER_05]: That doesn't have that deja vu feeling.

[00:22:51] [SPEAKER_05]: You're trying to break that deja vu feeling.

[00:22:54] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[00:22:55] [SPEAKER_00]: And that was what was interesting.

[00:22:57] [SPEAKER_00]: And then when she was so excited to go to Geordi, she again, like you said,

[00:23:02] [SPEAKER_00]: she just breaks the glass anyways, but in a different way.

[00:23:04] [SPEAKER_00]: So it was, this is what I liked about the episode is because everything is still happening,

[00:23:11] [SPEAKER_00]: breaking up the glass, the clipping of the orchids, all these different things.

[00:23:16] [SPEAKER_00]: But even in a different way, it still happens.

[00:23:19] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:23:20] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[00:23:22] [SPEAKER_00]: So I thought that was very, very well done.

[00:23:25] [SPEAKER_00]: I was trying to look in the script because I was curious what it might have said about,

[00:23:33] [SPEAKER_00]: you know, oh, here it is.

[00:23:35] [SPEAKER_00]: Perfect.

[00:23:36] [SPEAKER_00]: It says here Beverly sits down and picks up the glass of water.

[00:23:41] [SPEAKER_00]: That was a water from the night man and takes a sip.

[00:23:45] [SPEAKER_00]: She stares at the glass with dread certainty.

[00:23:47] [SPEAKER_00]: The glass is going to break.

[00:23:49] [SPEAKER_00]: She stands crosses the room sets the glass on the counter as if to say this time it will

[00:23:55] [SPEAKER_00]: not break.

[00:23:56] [SPEAKER_00]: She returns to Ben turns off the lap and lays down.

[00:23:59] [SPEAKER_00]: She is too anxious to rest up softly in the darkness and barely she could barely hear a voice

[00:24:04] [SPEAKER_00]: being heard.

[00:24:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Beverly sits up gradually, it does some voices.

[00:24:07] [SPEAKER_00]: She turns on the lamp.

[00:24:09] [SPEAKER_00]: She gets an idea stands and grabs the tricorder hits the button and aims the tricorder in the air.

[00:24:13] [SPEAKER_00]: The voices fade away.

[00:24:15] [SPEAKER_00]: Beverly takes a breath.

[00:24:16] [SPEAKER_00]: She talks to Geordi.

[00:24:19] [SPEAKER_00]: She says, okay, I'm on my way.

[00:24:21] [SPEAKER_00]: Tricorder in hand, Beverly crosses the dresser grabs her smock and accidentally knocks over the glass.

[00:24:26] [SPEAKER_00]: It breaks on the counter.

[00:24:27] [SPEAKER_00]: Beverly stares at the glass astonished.

[00:24:29] [SPEAKER_00]: Like she just had that intuition, right?

[00:24:32] [SPEAKER_00]: Which Beverly always has that intuition, which is why it always made her a great character.

[00:24:38] [SPEAKER_00]: Now I did reach out to my listeners and this is the pain for your thoughts.

[00:24:52] [SPEAKER_03]: Any for your thoughts?

[00:24:54] [SPEAKER_00]: Now I asked my listeners of what they thought were great sci-fi, groundhog episodes,

[00:25:02] [SPEAKER_00]: movies, whatever.

[00:25:04] [SPEAKER_00]: I did get a couple of responses and I also kind of cheated and went on screen rant and they had

[00:25:10] [SPEAKER_00]: their own list.

[00:25:12] [SPEAKER_00]: So there's maybe one episode here that's not necessarily sci-fi but these apparently are

[00:25:20] [SPEAKER_00]: all great episodes and I have seen half of these.

[00:25:25] [SPEAKER_00]: So Stargate SG-1, Window of Opportunity that was that Jay had mentioned.

[00:25:33] [SPEAKER_00]: I did see Charms Deja Vu all over again.

[00:25:36] [SPEAKER_00]: That is a really good one.

[00:25:37] [SPEAKER_00]: 12 Monkeys Lullaby, X Files Monday.

[00:25:40] [SPEAKER_00]: That was one of my picks.

[00:25:41] [SPEAKER_00]: Agents of Shield as I have always been in Russian Doll all of Season 1 and that actually came from Ryle.

[00:25:49] [SPEAKER_00]: So it was very, very interesting because I was kind of looking to see if there was any other

[00:25:54] [SPEAKER_00]: Star Trek ones because as much as I've seen a little bit of TOS, I have seen DS9 and I just

[00:26:02] [SPEAKER_00]: finished Voyager.

[00:26:03] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going into Enterprise but I wasn't sure if I might have missed anything or cause an effect

[00:26:10] [SPEAKER_00]: is always like in my brain.

[00:26:12] [SPEAKER_05]: It looms large.

[00:26:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Looms large, right?

[00:26:17] [SPEAKER_00]: But I didn't see anything else.

[00:26:20] [SPEAKER_05]: In terms of time loops, I don't know.

[00:26:23] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm trying to think if maybe there was a hint set it and maybe lower decks or something but

[00:26:28] [SPEAKER_05]: off the top of my head, nothing that quite fits this mold or the mold of some of the episodes

[00:26:34] [SPEAKER_05]: you just were listing that the listener suggested.

[00:26:39] [SPEAKER_05]: Which of those, I haven't seen all of those, Russian Doll is fantastic.

[00:26:44] [SPEAKER_05]: Is it sci-fi?

[00:26:46] [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know but it's still basically the same kind of concept.

[00:26:49] [SPEAKER_05]: But X-Files Monday, that's another one.

[00:26:53] [SPEAKER_05]: That would be at the top of my list as a good example.

[00:26:59] [SPEAKER_05]: I almost assumed that the producers and writers were doing a riff off of cause and effect in a

[00:27:05] [SPEAKER_05]: way.

[00:27:06] [SPEAKER_05]: I know it goes in its own direction but it is similar but it's also very well executed.

[00:27:12] [SPEAKER_05]: It's an interesting concept.

[00:27:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, now I asked you to pick two choices of your favorite time loop and I picked two choices.

[00:27:22] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to go first and as we were just mentioning, my first pick was Monday from X-Files.

[00:27:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Would you sacrifice yourself?

[00:27:31] [SPEAKER_00]: Don't go in the bank.

[00:27:32] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm sorry, do I know you?

[00:27:33] [SPEAKER_02]: To change the future.

[00:27:35] [SPEAKER_03]: She said that we'd die.

[00:27:36] [SPEAKER_02]: Something very bad is going to happen here today.

[00:27:39] [SPEAKER_02]: Till my ages might be in there.

[00:27:40] [SPEAKER_03]: Doesn't have to end like this.

[00:27:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:27:44] [SPEAKER_02]: The X-Files and all new episodes Sunday at 9, 8 central on Fox.

[00:27:49] [SPEAKER_05]: Brilliant.

[00:27:50] [SPEAKER_00]: I love those TV promos.

[00:27:52] [SPEAKER_00]: I love them too.

[00:27:54] [SPEAKER_00]: Brings back memories.

[00:27:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Now this particular episode, if anyone's not sure what happened, there is a time loop

[00:28:02] [SPEAKER_00]: that is happening and Mulder is basically Beverly in this episode.

[00:28:08] [SPEAKER_00]: He is sensing something as up.

[00:28:10] [SPEAKER_00]: Every time he goes into a bank, he has to do a check, Scully follows them in.

[00:28:15] [SPEAKER_00]: There is a bank robbery.

[00:28:16] [SPEAKER_00]: He blows up.

[00:28:17] [SPEAKER_00]: They all die and start over.

[00:28:18] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay?

[00:28:19] [SPEAKER_00]: So that's basically what happens.

[00:28:20] [SPEAKER_00]: But there is one girl who remembers every time they start over because she is the reason of why

[00:28:29] [SPEAKER_00]: this is happening.

[00:28:31] [SPEAKER_00]: And spoiler alert, the reason that they stopped it was instead of Mulder getting shot

[00:28:35] [SPEAKER_00]: and died in the place blowing up, she ended up getting shot.

[00:28:38] [SPEAKER_00]: And that's what stopped it.

[00:28:41] [SPEAKER_00]: But that was also another good example about how they were also going into the loops.

[00:28:48] [SPEAKER_00]: But they would slightly change it just a little bit to kind of keep you engaged enough.

[00:28:54] [SPEAKER_00]: But then still things were still happening the same way.

[00:28:57] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:28:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Right?

[00:28:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Like the break in of the glass scenario with Beverly.

[00:29:01] [SPEAKER_00]: But this was always a favor to mine.

[00:29:03] [SPEAKER_00]: I think this happened in season six of X-Files.

[00:29:09] [SPEAKER_00]: So definitely years later after Causen Effect and also Groundhog Day the movie.

[00:29:14] [SPEAKER_00]: But what is your impression or your thoughts about Monday that you like?

[00:29:21] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I like it.

[00:29:22] [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, for the same reasons you cite, it's well performed.

[00:29:25] [SPEAKER_05]: It's well written.

[00:29:26] [SPEAKER_05]: And it's a whole different universe of course.

[00:29:31] [SPEAKER_05]: And it's Mulder and Scully.

[00:29:33] [SPEAKER_05]: And part of it I think is also just sort of fun to see Mulder in a bank.

[00:29:38] [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know why.

[00:29:39] [SPEAKER_05]: It's just X-Files were so used to the big trees outside of Vancouver.

[00:29:45] [SPEAKER_05]: And just as a side note, I live and grew up in the Northern Virginia, Washington DC area.

[00:29:51] [SPEAKER_05]: And tons of X-Files episodes would the Chiron at the bottom would say

[00:29:56] [SPEAKER_05]: Falls Church Virginia or Annandale Virginia.

[00:29:58] [SPEAKER_05]: And then it would be some lonely road with 200 foot tall pine trees.

[00:30:03] [SPEAKER_05]: It does not look like that around here.

[00:30:07] [SPEAKER_05]: But yeah, I think the setting was interesting.

[00:30:09] [SPEAKER_05]: And as you said, like in Causen Effect, the way it was directed and performed,

[00:30:16] [SPEAKER_05]: they did a really good job of keeping you engaged while having that loop style,

[00:30:22] [SPEAKER_05]: you know, keeping up with the loop.

[00:30:25] [SPEAKER_05]: And like Causen Effect, there's not much extra to it.

[00:30:31] [SPEAKER_05]: It's sort of a straightforward story.

[00:30:32] [SPEAKER_05]: And by that I mean when we think of Groundhog Day,

[00:30:35] [SPEAKER_05]: when we think of the choices I'm going to talk about and some of those other TV episodes,

[00:30:39] [SPEAKER_05]: a lot of them use the time loop to sort of meditate on a sort of a philosophical position,

[00:30:49] [SPEAKER_05]: becoming a better person or letting go of regrets or whatever.

[00:30:55] [SPEAKER_05]: There are a number of themes that might come up.

[00:30:57] [SPEAKER_05]: But Causen Effect, it's sort of just a straightforward like, oh, we're stuck in

[00:31:01] [SPEAKER_05]: a time loop. How are we going to get out of it?

[00:31:03] [SPEAKER_05]: You're not you're learning about the characters from the fact that they're

[00:31:06] [SPEAKER_05]: problem solving. But the time loop is incidental to that.

[00:31:10] [SPEAKER_05]: And I think Monday is similar in that it's just a good episode of X-Files.

[00:31:16] [SPEAKER_05]: And, you know, there's not this extra philosophical meditation.

[00:31:21] [SPEAKER_05]: Not that I have a problem with that.

[00:31:22] [SPEAKER_05]: I actually love that about a lot of these other movies and TV shows.

[00:31:26] [SPEAKER_05]: But it's also kind of interesting just to say, okay, we want to watch our characters and

[00:31:30] [SPEAKER_05]: see how they will resolve this situation.

[00:31:33] [SPEAKER_05]: How will they react to this type of a situation?

[00:31:35] [SPEAKER_05]: And that's just fun.

[00:31:37] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.

[00:31:38] [SPEAKER_00]: Which that's actually a perfect segue because my second choice is not necessarily sci-fi.

[00:31:43] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, it's not sci-fi at all.

[00:31:45] [SPEAKER_00]: But it was a Xena episode.

[00:31:48] [SPEAKER_00]: And it was one of my favorite Xena episodes.

[00:31:50] [SPEAKER_00]: And it was called Been There, Done That.

[00:31:53] [SPEAKER_02]: What if tomorrow never came?

[00:31:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Rise and shine everybody, rise and shine!

[00:31:58] [SPEAKER_02]: On the next all new Xena.

[00:31:59] [SPEAKER_00]: The day is repeating itself.

[00:32:01] [SPEAKER_00]: But today hasn't happened yet.

[00:32:02] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, it happened to me.

[00:32:03] [SPEAKER_02]: Only Xena can jumpstart the clock.

[00:32:05] [SPEAKER_00]: So you're saying that today is actually yesterday for you.

[00:32:08] [SPEAKER_00]: But for us, today is today because we can't remember that yesterday was today, right?

[00:32:11] Right.

[00:32:12] [SPEAKER_02]: But time is not on her side.

[00:32:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Just don't try and stop me.

[00:32:15] [SPEAKER_02]: Been There, Done That.

[00:32:17] [SPEAKER_01]: Battle on Xena.

[00:32:21] [SPEAKER_05]: That's great.

[00:32:22] [SPEAKER_05]: I just, I watch a lot of Xena, but that's not one that I caught.

[00:32:25] [SPEAKER_05]: That's the first time I think I've seen the trailer for that.

[00:32:28] [SPEAKER_05]: And that is fantastic, both because it's Xena and because of the, that style, that 90s.

[00:32:34] [SPEAKER_05]: Style.

[00:32:36] [SPEAKER_00]: Here's the thing is, so not many people know this, but I am a huge Xena fan.

[00:32:45] [SPEAKER_00]: Like I went to conventions.

[00:32:48] [SPEAKER_00]: I have a collection back here.

[00:32:51] [SPEAKER_00]: I saw Lucy Lullis in person did not get to meet her,

[00:32:55] [SPEAKER_00]: but I cried like a Justin Bieber fan girl.

[00:32:57] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

[00:32:58] [SPEAKER_00]: It was during a time where, you know,

[00:33:00] [SPEAKER_00]: I was going through a lot as a middle schooler.

[00:33:02] [SPEAKER_00]: And so Xena was my savior kind of like she helped me through a lot of stuff.

[00:33:10] [SPEAKER_00]: I would record every episode.

[00:33:12] [SPEAKER_00]: I had so many VHSs.

[00:33:16] [SPEAKER_05]: That's awesome.

[00:33:18] [SPEAKER_00]: The thing was, is this season three was my favorite.

[00:33:22] [SPEAKER_00]: There was a lot that happened with the characters.

[00:33:24] [SPEAKER_00]: There was a lot going on, but there was also very good bottle episodes or just certain like,

[00:33:31] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, tsunami was in season three, which was a great italics episode.

[00:33:37] [SPEAKER_00]: I think this is when hope was introduced and you know, so there was all this stuff going on.

[00:33:42] [SPEAKER_00]: I think this was her son died, like all that stuff.

[00:33:46] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, this one was just a very fun episode.

[00:33:48] [SPEAKER_00]: And of course she, like the girl in Monday,

[00:33:53] [SPEAKER_00]: she knew the day was repeating itself and she didn't know why though.

[00:33:57] [SPEAKER_00]: She was like, what is going on?

[00:33:59] [SPEAKER_00]: So every time she would wake up first day, it was totally fine.

[00:34:03] [SPEAKER_00]: But joxer dies.

[00:34:04] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh shoot.

[00:34:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

[00:34:06] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, then she wakes up and joxers alive and she's like, what the heck's going on?

[00:34:09] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, on that day Gabrielle dies.

[00:34:11] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

[00:34:11] [SPEAKER_00]: And so then, but then the next day all three of them died.

[00:34:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Like, but she couldn't really figure out what was going on.

[00:34:17] [SPEAKER_00]: But because she started to see her getting annoyed.

[00:34:20] [SPEAKER_00]: And at one point it's always the rooster crowing and joxer coming in with his

[00:34:27] [SPEAKER_00]: hat full of eggs and stuff.

[00:34:30] [SPEAKER_00]: And by the way, I haven't seen this episode in 25 years.

[00:34:33] [SPEAKER_00]: I am doing this.

[00:34:35] [SPEAKER_05]: Amazing.

[00:34:36] [SPEAKER_05]: And by the way, you're selling it because I'm going to go find it someplace and watch it.

[00:34:42] [SPEAKER_00]: There's at one point where it loops and she wakes up and she throws the chakram

[00:34:46] [SPEAKER_00]: and kills the rooster.

[00:34:48] [SPEAKER_00]: There's another moment where she actually just kills joxer as he walks in

[00:34:52] [SPEAKER_05]: and Gabrielle will be back the next day.

[00:34:54] [SPEAKER_00]: Because he knows he'll be back.

[00:34:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:34:55] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, Gabrielle's like, you know, and stuff.

[00:34:59] [SPEAKER_00]: And she's just going back to sleep all cuddling with her blanket.

[00:35:02] [SPEAKER_00]: Like it was, it's so funny.

[00:35:04] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, then she finds out that it has to do with kind of a Romeo and Juliet situation

[00:35:09] [SPEAKER_00]: where there was two houses that were against each other, but there was two

[00:35:13] [SPEAKER_00]: of each family that were in love.

[00:35:16] [SPEAKER_00]: They didn't think that they were going to be able to get married.

[00:35:18] [SPEAKER_00]: You saw the girl with the vial of poison.

[00:35:21] [SPEAKER_00]: She tries to kill herself.

[00:35:23] [SPEAKER_00]: So the fiance or her boyfriend or whatever he was called to the gods to,

[00:35:29] [SPEAKER_00]: you know, find a savior to help save his, the love of his life.

[00:35:34] [SPEAKER_00]: And that happened to Bezina.

[00:35:35] [SPEAKER_00]: And so she had to try and figure out so many different ways of like, okay,

[00:35:40] [SPEAKER_00]: I have to stop this, this, this, this, this, this, so then this doesn't happen.

[00:35:43] [SPEAKER_00]: And it's hilarious.

[00:35:46] [SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.

[00:35:47] [SPEAKER_00]: This, I mean, a lot of these episodes that we're mentioning or the movies,

[00:35:50] [SPEAKER_00]: this is a funny, funny episode.

[00:35:54] [SPEAKER_05]: And I can imagine particularly because Zina's characters, she gets frustrated.

[00:35:58] [SPEAKER_05]: She's a person of action.

[00:36:00] [SPEAKER_05]: And so if she's trying to solve a puzzle, I know that's not her favorite situation to be in.

[00:36:06] [SPEAKER_05]: So I can imagine, you know, even having not seen the episode,

[00:36:10] [SPEAKER_05]: I can very clearly imagine how Lucy Lawless would play the frustration on Zina's case.

[00:36:20] [SPEAKER_05]: That the gods have put her into.

[00:36:22] [SPEAKER_00]: At the end of the promo though, you see her wake up, but she's like, yeah,

[00:36:26] [SPEAKER_00]: she's all because, because she looped multiple times.

[00:36:30] [SPEAKER_00]: I think was in cause and effect.

[00:36:32] [SPEAKER_00]: They did it what 17 days?

[00:36:34] [SPEAKER_00]: There's a 17 days.

[00:36:36] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:36:36] [SPEAKER_05]: She although how many time loops?

[00:36:38] [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know because the time loops not necessarily a day, you know, just that's true.

[00:36:42] [SPEAKER_00]: That is true.

[00:36:44] [SPEAKER_00]: So what was interesting though, she definitely did more 17.

[00:36:48] [SPEAKER_00]: Like every time she's like, oh, made a mistake.

[00:36:50] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, try again the next time, you know, and but it's a fun episode.

[00:36:54] [SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely love it.

[00:36:56] [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, I had to, I had to bring that up.

[00:36:59] [SPEAKER_00]: It's not sci-fi, but it is a love of mine.

[00:37:02] [SPEAKER_05]: I think it first of all, I think it counts partly because arguably neither of my choices

[00:37:07] [SPEAKER_05]: are fully sci-fi.

[00:37:10] [SPEAKER_05]: So, you know, I want to be on the good side of things there.

[00:37:12] [SPEAKER_05]: But also one thing that's great about Xena and why I enjoyed it so much was,

[00:37:19] [SPEAKER_05]: I think Xena, it's of course again totally different setup than Star Trek.

[00:37:24] [SPEAKER_05]: But like Star Trek generally and particularly TOS, Xena, the producers,

[00:37:30] [SPEAKER_05]: the writers, the actors, they were so good at doing so much with so little, right?

[00:37:36] [SPEAKER_05]: It was not a huge budget show, especially not at the beginning.

[00:37:39] [SPEAKER_05]: Okay. They were able to cobble together brilliant sets, brilliant props.

[00:37:47] [SPEAKER_05]: They got really great actors who were enthusiastic, including not just the main actors,

[00:37:53] [SPEAKER_05]: but they always had great guest actors and extras.

[00:37:56] [SPEAKER_05]: Everyone just seemed so down to have a good time and put on an excellent show.

[00:38:01] [SPEAKER_05]: And I really, I like that vibe and it's great that the Star Trek franchise has gotten to

[00:38:08] [SPEAKER_05]: the point where, you know, it's long been a big budget show.

[00:38:12] [SPEAKER_05]: But back in the US days, they're telling, they're putting on great entertainment by

[00:38:17] [SPEAKER_05]: focusing on telling a great story and doing it as best as they can,

[00:38:22] [SPEAKER_05]: even when it's clearly styrofoam rocks and stuff.

[00:38:28] [SPEAKER_05]: But your brain doesn't care because the story is a good story

[00:38:32] [SPEAKER_05]: and the actors and everybody involved are just putting their all into it.

[00:38:37] [SPEAKER_05]: So I think it totally fits. It totally fits.

[00:38:40] [SPEAKER_00]: Yay, I'm glad. I do know that there are a lot of Star Trek fans that love Beverly Crusher and also

[00:38:47] [SPEAKER_00]: love Xena. So it works out. But yeah, I'm a huge fan of Lucy Lowe's, huge fan of Xena,

[00:38:52] [SPEAKER_00]: always forever have my heart. However, I only saw the series finale once.

[00:38:58] [SPEAKER_00]: And that is all I'm ever going to do because I bawled like a little baby.

[00:39:03] [SPEAKER_00]: And it ruined. I was 16 years old. I'm still traumatized and do not like how they ended it.

[00:39:09] [SPEAKER_05]: I understand why, but still I'm not happy. A lot of people feel that way about Star Trek Enterprise.

[00:39:15] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, yeah, that's true. That one was just ridiculous. I know it's like a different

[00:39:20] [SPEAKER_00]: reaction. But yeah. Yeah. But I get it. I mean, it's not fair to what I thought of it wasn't

[00:39:27] [SPEAKER_00]: fair to the cast of the show to end it the way that they did. But the way that they ended Xena

[00:39:33] [SPEAKER_00]: was very traumatic. I'm not going to lie. But let's go ahead to your two choices.

[00:39:41] [SPEAKER_00]: Sure. And this first one is called Run Lola Run.

[00:40:10] [SPEAKER_00]: All right, that was I feel like that was sci-fi-ish.

[00:40:14] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, so first of all, Run Lola Run or Lola Rent in German is it's a German film,

[00:40:20] [SPEAKER_05]: Franca Potente before she became famous in Hollywood during all the Hollywood work that she did.

[00:40:28] [SPEAKER_05]: It's one of my favorite films of all time. It's in I think it came out in 1998. I saw it

[00:40:35] [SPEAKER_05]: not long after that and I was in college. I don't even know how I heard about I was doing

[00:40:40] [SPEAKER_05]: a lot of film classes at the time. So I've probably heard about it from somebody and

[00:40:44] [SPEAKER_05]: acquired it somehow. And it is a time loop episode or a time episode. It's a time loop movie in that

[00:40:52] [SPEAKER_05]: the premise is that Lola and her boyfriend, he's a sort of a two bit criminal, you know,

[00:41:00] [SPEAKER_05]: like a low rent criminal guy. And he basically he's doing a drug deal drop where he's got

[00:41:07] [SPEAKER_05]: to get the money for some big drug deal. He gives the people the drugs, he gets the money,

[00:41:12] [SPEAKER_05]: he forgets it on I think the subway or something. He loses the money and basically

[00:41:16] [SPEAKER_05]: he calls it Lola and he's like if I don't find 100,000 Deutsch marks or whatever, I'm dead.

[00:41:22] [SPEAKER_05]: And so she this sets into motion. Lola basically running around town trying to get the money

[00:41:31] [SPEAKER_05]: together for her boyfriend to save his life. And he's basically said if you know if you

[00:41:36] [SPEAKER_05]: can't get the money I'm going to rob this store, which would be an even bigger crime than he

[00:41:41] [SPEAKER_05]: previously really been involved with. And you know, I won't spoil it because I do recommend

[00:41:47] [SPEAKER_05]: people should go see this movie. It's not long. It's really, really good. I highly recommend

[00:41:54] [SPEAKER_05]: watching it in German with subtitles because Franck and Potente and the other actors really

[00:41:59] [SPEAKER_05]: there's so much emotion involved in this story. But the main difference from cause and effect

[00:42:06] [SPEAKER_05]: and some of these other stories is similar to the Zina story. Lola can remember the previous

[00:42:14] [SPEAKER_05]: cycles in the time loop. And I say it's not sci fi, but there's no explanation as to why she's

[00:42:20] [SPEAKER_05]: in a time loop. But what's kind of cool is is the impression you get from the film that

[00:42:24] [SPEAKER_05]: she isn't a time loop just out of force of sheer will. She's so desperate to solve this problem

[00:42:31] [SPEAKER_05]: that her boyfriend has gotten himself into that her will forces the universe to give her

[00:42:38] [SPEAKER_05]: more chances to try to resolve, resolve this issue. And it's, it's just a pulse pounding,

[00:42:45] [SPEAKER_05]: fast paced, amazing film for folks who haven't seen it. I think you'll really, really be

[00:42:52] [SPEAKER_05]: pleased by checking it out and adding it to your library of time loop episodes.

[00:42:59] [SPEAKER_00]: Right? I was watching the promo and I was like, I think this is something my husband might enjoy.

[00:43:07] [SPEAKER_00]: He does like those kind of stories like, what's in that? Inception?

[00:43:12] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh yeah. Yeah. So that's like he likes those weird kind of

[00:43:18] [SPEAKER_05]: what, what's better about Run, Lullarun? I like Inception and I like Chris Nolan movies in general.

[00:43:25] [SPEAKER_05]: They tend to be very high cons of very interesting, very well executed. But

[00:43:28] [SPEAKER_05]: what gives the edge to a movie like Run, Lullarun is, is that emotional aspect is that there's

[00:43:35] [SPEAKER_05]: there is rage, there is joy. And Franca Poutente just does such a brilliant job with it.

[00:43:46] [SPEAKER_05]: People need to, people who haven't seen that movie definitely need to check it out.

[00:43:50] [SPEAKER_00]: All right. Well, let's get into your second choice here that I was very interested in

[00:43:57] [SPEAKER_00]: watching myself. So here is the promo for it and it's called Palm Springs.

[00:44:04] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think that we met. I'm Sarah. Niles.

[00:44:09] [SPEAKER_01]: Nice. Niles! Don't come in here!

[00:44:20] [SPEAKER_02]: It's gonna be a beautiful wedding.

[00:44:23] [SPEAKER_04]: It's one of those infinite time-lapse situations you might have heard about.

[00:44:29] [SPEAKER_04]: The second you fall asleep it all just goes back to the start.

[00:44:32] [SPEAKER_04]: Well then what's the point of living? We kind of have no choice but to live.

[00:44:35] [SPEAKER_04]: No, I'm gonna get out of this. See you tomorrow.

[00:44:45] [SPEAKER_03]: I can't keep waiting over here. At least you have each other.

[00:44:49] [SPEAKER_03]: Everything that we are doing is meaningless.

[00:44:52] [SPEAKER_04]: Good day, Sulfa. Today, tomorrow, it's all the same.

[00:44:58] [SPEAKER_00]: What was funny is when I see her get all upset and she's thrashing in the bed,

[00:45:03] [SPEAKER_00]: literally what Zena did.

[00:45:06] [SPEAKER_05]: I think I've done that a few times too at a frustration.

[00:45:09] [SPEAKER_00]: I know.

[00:45:11] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, Palm Springs.

[00:45:11] [SPEAKER_00]: So why was this your other pick?

[00:45:13] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, because it's a great movie and it's one of those ones that I think, you know,

[00:45:17] [SPEAKER_05]: suffered a little during the pandemic because it came out in 2020,

[00:45:22] [SPEAKER_05]: right in that sort of, you know, COVID pandemic time where everything was up in the air.

[00:45:27] [SPEAKER_05]: It was only released into a few theaters at most and I think it came out in theaters

[00:45:31] [SPEAKER_05]: and Hulu at the same time.

[00:45:33] [SPEAKER_05]: Believe it's still on Hulu. I could be wrong about that but I, you know,

[00:45:36] [SPEAKER_05]: that's definitely where it was for a while.

[00:45:39] [SPEAKER_05]: But it is more overtly sci-fi in that there is talk of quantum mechanics and all this

[00:45:47] [SPEAKER_05]: other stuff. Although that being said, it's also got this sort of fantasy element.

[00:45:51] [SPEAKER_05]: There's definitely as I was saying before, this is one of those stories that really has sort

[00:45:55] [SPEAKER_05]: of a philosophical aspect to it about the meaning of life, fate, romance, all what are

[00:46:04] [SPEAKER_05]: these things all mean?

[00:46:05] [SPEAKER_05]: And is it something other than just the sum of the physical parts, that sort of thing?

[00:46:11] [SPEAKER_05]: And Andy Samberg, Kristen Miliotti and J.K. Simmons is in it too in a fantastic sort of

[00:46:18] [SPEAKER_05]: side role. And the thing is, this shares most in common with Groundhog Day but they did some

[00:46:26] [SPEAKER_05]: pretty brilliant things to do a twist on the Groundhog Day concept.

[00:46:30] [SPEAKER_05]: One of them is that Andy Samberg, he's been in this time loop for a long time when

[00:46:37] [SPEAKER_05]: the movie has started. He's just already in the time loop. So it's not something that he's,

[00:46:42] [SPEAKER_05]: you're not experiencing it with him as the audience. You are experiencing it with Kristen Miliotti

[00:46:49] [SPEAKER_05]: because she's been pulled into this time loop and for reasons that you discover in the

[00:46:57] [SPEAKER_05]: mechanics of the movie when the movie sort of starts to explain exactly what's going on.

[00:47:01] [SPEAKER_05]: And so she's the audience surrogate and she's dealing with Andy Samberg and there's

[00:47:06] [SPEAKER_05]: pluses and minuses to that. And then all of a sudden J.K. Simmons shows up in, again, it's,

[00:47:12] [SPEAKER_05]: as you were saying, these stories often have an opportunity to be humorous. And this is a very

[00:47:16] [SPEAKER_05]: funny movie but also emotionally touching philosophically interesting. It says some

[00:47:24] [SPEAKER_05]: interesting things and it asks some interesting questions while being thoroughly entertaining

[00:47:30] [SPEAKER_05]: throughout. And so when you asked me about some time loop things, this along with the

[00:47:36] [SPEAKER_05]: run-lull run were the ones that just immediately popped to mind.

[00:47:40] [SPEAKER_00]: I was watching the promo and I was like, I think this is a movie I could see. It's very hard to

[00:47:46] [SPEAKER_00]: get me interested in a movie. I don't know what it's been but like the last decade at least

[00:47:53] [SPEAKER_00]: I just kind of like, you know, I mean my aunt she'll go to watch any movie at a theater.

[00:48:02] [SPEAKER_00]: Husband loves to go to the movie theaters but I don't know. I just kind of lost

[00:48:06] [SPEAKER_00]: interest and I don't know if it's because movies are just not made the same way they used to be

[00:48:13] [SPEAKER_00]: or especially since the pandemic that even kind of made it worse. So, you know, sometimes people will

[00:48:20] [SPEAKER_00]: like recommend things and like, oh, you should watch this. I'm like, yeah, maybe and I never do.

[00:48:25] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, it's tricky because, you know, I've had the same experience when I was younger,

[00:48:29] [SPEAKER_05]: I would go to the movie theater all the time, you know, it was three bucks. We'd go to

[00:48:33] [SPEAKER_05]: the matinees. We'd watch movies all day. Well, that's part of the problem, right? But

[00:48:40] [SPEAKER_05]: and then, you know, in college and well beyond that I regularly would watch movies including

[00:48:46] [SPEAKER_05]: movies that didn't even look that good. I was kind of interested in watching bad movies.

[00:48:50] [SPEAKER_05]: I wanted to know what makes a bad movie. Let me examine why do I not like this movie.

[00:48:57] [SPEAKER_05]: But I also think, you know, time goes on. You start getting busy. Time starts getting really

[00:49:03] [SPEAKER_05]: valuable, right? And then you start thinking, I don't want to be watching some nonsense. And so

[00:49:10] [SPEAKER_05]: you get gun shy about that and you rely on things that you have a higher degree of confidence in.

[00:49:16] [SPEAKER_05]: You know, I think that's why a lot of us like franchise shows, right? Because yeah, they're

[00:49:19] [SPEAKER_05]: not all not every episode is a winner but you have a certain confidence in the show producers

[00:49:26] [SPEAKER_05]: or a certain franchise. It can be very comforting and plus you can always go back and

[00:49:31] [SPEAKER_05]: watch the older stuff. And you're like, why would I risk this next hour of my life on this show that

[00:49:37] [SPEAKER_05]: might just be nonsense when I can just go watch cause and effect? And I know I'm going to enjoy it.

[00:49:44] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm going to be so happy having watched that. And so I think the calculus just sort of changes

[00:49:48] [SPEAKER_05]: as time goes on. It'd be nice. I wish I had the luxury to just watch a bunch of

[00:49:54] [SPEAKER_05]: bad movies all day. But it's hard to sort through all that stuff.

[00:49:59] [SPEAKER_00]: No, I think you hit the nail in the head. There was, there's something about TV shows that I was

[00:50:05] [SPEAKER_00]: always interested in and the one show that comes to mind is bones. And it was a comfort show that

[00:50:15] [SPEAKER_00]: I would just constantly watch. And I mean from the day I discovered it, which I was pregnant

[00:50:22] [SPEAKER_00]: with my daughter in 2000, up until I discovered the next generation, which was 2022, bones played

[00:50:29] [SPEAKER_00]: every single day from that time span. And it was just, and I wasn't like I was sitting down

[00:50:37] [SPEAKER_00]: watching it. It was on the TV. It just played. It was a comfort show was in the background. I

[00:50:42] [SPEAKER_00]: fell asleep to it. My daughter still falls asleep to it. She has the DVDs in her room

[00:50:46] [SPEAKER_00]: right now and she plays it and she goes to sleep. There was just something about the show

[00:50:50] [SPEAKER_00]: that I really enjoyed. And my husband was always like,

[00:50:55] [SPEAKER_00]: watch something else. And I'm like,

[00:50:57] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, I've heard that from my wife as well. I tend to cycle through shows, but you know,

[00:51:03] [SPEAKER_05]: it'll be King of the Hill for a few years of Bob's burgers. X Files is a go to. So I once did

[00:51:09] [SPEAKER_05]: a watch through a few years back. I did a watch through episode one to the end of the latest

[00:51:15] [SPEAKER_05]: episodes of X Files. And my wife just she never didn't say anything about it. She's

[00:51:20] [SPEAKER_05]: like, okay, cool. And then after I watched the series finale to X Files, I immediately loaded

[00:51:25] [SPEAKER_05]: up the pilot episode and my wife was like, no, no, what are you doing? I was like, no, no, no,

[00:51:30] [SPEAKER_05]: I was just, yeah, I'm just watching it to compare. I'm not going to do another watch

[00:51:34] [SPEAKER_05]: right now. It's like, no, don't do it. But it is comforting, right? It is a comforting

[00:51:41] [SPEAKER_05]: thing. And that that's such a value that these television programs provide us because

[00:51:47] [SPEAKER_05]: you know, we joke around about it. But the psychological value of having those shows that

[00:51:53] [SPEAKER_05]: you can have some confidence in that they'll make you feel better. It's like having a favorite food

[00:51:57] [SPEAKER_05]: or something, except fewer calories. It's a lot healthier, I think to watch TNG than to eat

[00:52:05] [SPEAKER_00]: milk or chocolate or. Unless you're watching, you know, TNG all day and to sit on the couch.

[00:52:10] [SPEAKER_00]: That's not too healthy, I guess. But it was funny because the first thing that actually

[00:52:15] [SPEAKER_00]: got me out of bones or was kind of in the mix was X Files. My husband got me to watch that

[00:52:20] [SPEAKER_00]: because that's his second favorite show of all time went through that watch through and then the

[00:52:25] [SPEAKER_00]: moment TNG, it just that took over and that's all over the place. But right now I can't watch any

[00:52:30] [SPEAKER_00]: TV in my room like the Wi-Fi doesn't work. Now my Blu-ray broke. I have one channel that

[00:52:36] [SPEAKER_00]: works through the antenna and it's a mystery channel. So right now I've been watching

[00:52:41] [SPEAKER_00]: MacGyver, the new MacGyver. No, I haven't seen the new MacGyver yet. Yeah, NCIS, New Orleans. So I was

[00:52:49] [SPEAKER_00]: like, oh, at least I'm going to be watching Scott Backliss. That's good. They do show bones. Went

[00:52:54] [SPEAKER_00]: back to CSI Miami. That was a comfort show of mine. So I'm just watching those and repeat. And

[00:52:58] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm all like, well, at least I'm watching new shows now, right? Well, you know, I think that

[00:53:02] [SPEAKER_05]: actually you've described a scenario that I think might actually also go back to what

[00:53:08] [SPEAKER_05]: you were talking about before, about having in more recent years, having a little bit of trouble

[00:53:12] [SPEAKER_05]: getting into watching movies or some of these newer things. And I think part of it is

[00:53:18] [SPEAKER_05]: while I undoubtedly I prefer the streaming era, I prefer having access to all old stuff. I have

[00:53:24] [SPEAKER_05]: I love all the new stuff that's coming out. I do I do like that there's the variety.

[00:53:29] [SPEAKER_05]: I like so much specifically that TV shows are being produced for a much broader set of audiences,

[00:53:35] [SPEAKER_05]: right? So it's not just targeting this one demographic, right? Right. Which which is a problem.

[00:53:41] [SPEAKER_05]: So I undoubtedly I like all of that. However, I also realize that the lifting of those restrictions

[00:53:49] [SPEAKER_05]: in some ways is what makes it harder for us to discover discover those things like when you

[00:53:55] [SPEAKER_05]: have only one channel that comes in well, I remember I remember being a kid and and you

[00:54:00] [SPEAKER_05]: know, there's only one channel that works or two, or there's three channels that work,

[00:54:04] [SPEAKER_05]: but two of them, you know, aren't interested in. So you sit there and you and you watch what's being

[00:54:09] [SPEAKER_05]: shown to you. And that's and that's that's gone for the most part because there's we why would we do

[00:54:15] [SPEAKER_05]: that? You know, we would right will pick the thing we want to watch. And it has been interesting

[00:54:21] [SPEAKER_05]: to see some of the streaming services like Paramount Plus and some of the others put on

[00:54:25] [SPEAKER_05]: these these sort of live channels where they just will play for example, South Park or

[00:54:30] [SPEAKER_05]: something just over and over or TNG, they have the Star Trek channel. And so it's sort of

[00:54:35] [SPEAKER_05]: replicating that you still have to go pick it. But it is interesting to see some of them,

[00:54:40] [SPEAKER_05]: the streaming channels experimenting with this idea of the throwback to I don't want to have to

[00:54:45] [SPEAKER_05]: have any cognitive load in terms of picking what I'm going to watch. You show me something

[00:54:51] [SPEAKER_05]: I'll enjoy it or not. But let's be I'll rely on you to show me something interesting.

[00:54:57] [SPEAKER_00]: And that's kind of why I liked Pluto TV, because as much as all their channels are already set for

[00:55:04] [SPEAKER_00]: you, you can kind of like Oh, I love Lucy channel. Oh, there's the mystery channel. You know,

[00:55:09] [SPEAKER_00]: first 48 was one of those dramas, you know, real life dramas that I loved to watch. And so

[00:55:14] [SPEAKER_00]: that would be played or so. And of course they have a Star Trek channel. So I have to watch

[00:55:19] [SPEAKER_00]: that. But that kind of so then I would just put the channel on and just be done, right? Because

[00:55:24] [SPEAKER_00]: just playing. So it just made it easier to watch. And yeah, I but there's just something about like

[00:55:33] [SPEAKER_00]: we were just talking about earlier is just when you have a comfort show, you just want to watch

[00:55:37] [SPEAKER_00]: that comfort show, especially when you've had like a long day at work, trust about something,

[00:55:42] [SPEAKER_00]: you need some comfort and Star Trek brings that, you know, and I mean, I learned that late.

[00:55:48] [SPEAKER_05]: But at least I learned it right. And we're so happy that you did because you've been

[00:55:54] [SPEAKER_05]: doing all this awesome stuff. You know, since I mean, because you're a recent convert to

[00:55:59] [SPEAKER_05]: Star Trek, you're not like some of the years logging through this for eternity.

[00:56:07] [SPEAKER_05]: But I mean, look, I do a Star Trek podcast too, obviously. And it is it's so fun for so many

[00:56:15] [SPEAKER_05]: reasons interacting with, you know, wonderful folks like you and the fans and getting to

[00:56:20] [SPEAKER_05]: entertain and all that. But really, one of the best things about it is I have a structured

[00:56:25] [SPEAKER_05]: reason why I have to watch Star Trek every week. And that's great. I love it. I love it. I love

[00:56:32] [SPEAKER_05]: not having any excuse. I was like, I have to watch this episode at least once if not two or

[00:56:37] [SPEAKER_05]: three times so I can do a good job right on my podcast. And it's a joy to be able to do that.

[00:56:44] [SPEAKER_05]: So in some ways, very, very selfish. This is definitely not a selfless act doing a

[00:56:49] [SPEAKER_05]: doing a Star Trek podcast because it's like we get to we get to watch a great show and have fun doing

[00:56:54] [SPEAKER_00]: it. And it's funny you mentioned that because that's also my excuse to, you know, my kid or my husband

[00:57:02] [SPEAKER_00]: or any of me like, Oh, well, I got to watch some Star Trek because, you know, I gotta

[00:57:05] [SPEAKER_00]: got alive here in a couple of days. I got to prepare. Gotta do my homework. Gotta do my

[00:57:10] [SPEAKER_00]: homework. Yeah. Except for me and Zina, which that's ingrained in my memory forever.

[00:57:16] [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, I like I said, you know, today's Star Trek Day. And, you know, we're celebrating the

[00:57:23] [SPEAKER_00]: franchise of the last 58 years. And it's just a testament of these 58 years of why the fans love

[00:57:33] [SPEAKER_00]: the shows, all of them, you know, we're already way past 900 episodes and like what 13 movies

[00:57:40] [SPEAKER_00]: or something. And it's one of those things where you just enjoy it. It has great conversations.

[00:57:48] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that was one of the things that I learned and why I did the podcast. When I had first started

[00:57:52] [SPEAKER_00]: the podcast, it was on Twitter space. And I had done cause and effect and I had talked to a few

[00:57:59] [SPEAKER_00]: people about it. But, you know, after watching it over and over again and kind of getting more

[00:58:04] [SPEAKER_00]: of an idea or even comparing it to Monday or been there done that, you know, it's like, oh,

[00:58:10] [SPEAKER_00]: they did it like this when they, you know, and they were really the first ones. It was a 92. Yeah.

[00:58:16] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, just unheard of for them to do that. And so that was what was also really great is

[00:58:23] [SPEAKER_00]: that Star Trek really paved the way for a lot of shows. Absolutely. Yeah. And so I always

[00:58:32] [SPEAKER_00]: make the joke of what came first was, you know, cause they say the Scully effect where a lot of

[00:58:36] [SPEAKER_00]: women went into science and STEM because of Dana Scully. But I always made the joke. I was like,

[00:58:42] [SPEAKER_00]: well, what came first? Because Beverly Crusher was before Scully, but then Scully's in the 20th

[00:58:47] [SPEAKER_00]: century. Well, Beverly, in this time you why me Wibbly Wobbly situation came first. But,

[00:58:57] [SPEAKER_00]: you know, even Gates has said that people have come up to her and said, you know,

[00:59:01] [SPEAKER_00]: I went into medicine or I went into science because they watched Beverly Crusher. So

[00:59:05] [SPEAKER_00]: it's not even just the Scully effect. It's just the overall of these sci-fi shows engaging

[00:59:10] [SPEAKER_00]: people and wanting them to be like this looks like a cool job. I'm going to want to do this,

[00:59:17] [SPEAKER_00]: you know, or they want to make Star Trek come true. Like I'm going to help make bio beds or,

[00:59:24] [SPEAKER_00]: you know, tripoders or whatever that is in our future. Yeah. Replicator would be great because

[00:59:31] [SPEAKER_00]: we don't have time to cook. Like I'm just saying 3D printed pasta. Exactly. That's Neelix's hair

[00:59:41] [SPEAKER_05]: pasta. We just covered part, part who is part tuition from Voyager where Neelix serves the

[00:59:48] [SPEAKER_05]: crew hair pasta. It is exactly what you, what you think it is. What do you think?

[00:59:54] [SPEAKER_00]: I remember that episode. I really do. Now going back to cause and effect, I'm going to go ahead

[01:00:02] [SPEAKER_00]: and talk about the Tri-Corder rating. All right. So I asked the listeners to vote. I got 55

[01:00:14] [SPEAKER_00]: votes and it was pretty much a landslide 71% gave it five Pocotips which is the top

[01:00:20] [SPEAKER_00]: one. Four Orchids was 15% and there was a tie between three wine glasses or one and two

[01:00:26] [SPEAKER_00]: exploding enterprises at seven. I was kind of actually surprised that people even rated it

[01:00:32] [SPEAKER_05]: one to two. Me too. I'm not surprised how many rated it well. But you know, it's subjective

[01:00:37] [SPEAKER_05]: in the end. Maybe they just don't like the pressure. I'm just saying. Some people or they,

[01:00:42] [SPEAKER_05]: or they, you know, I can, while I think they did a very good job of avoiding the repetition,

[01:00:48] [SPEAKER_05]: I could also see depending on how much nuance you're, you're focusing on, etc. You might watch this

[01:00:54] [SPEAKER_05]: episode and, and you know, think okay, I get it. I'm done. Or depending on when you, when you saw

[01:01:00] [SPEAKER_05]: it, right? Because it is this, you know, like anything, anything classic often gets compared to

[01:01:07] [SPEAKER_05]: the 50 things afterwards that did the same thing. And sometimes they do it better or in a different

[01:01:12] [SPEAKER_05]: way that engages with people more. So it's, it's like sometimes, you know, people, you know,

[01:01:18] [SPEAKER_05]: watch a Shakespeare play and be like, I've seen this before. It's like, yeah, but it came from here.

[01:01:24] [SPEAKER_05]: This is where it came from, you know? Exactly. But yeah, I mean, you know, it is, it is subjective.

[01:01:30] [SPEAKER_05]: But yeah, I'm with that 71%. This is. Oh, me too. Right at the, right at the top for me.

[01:01:37] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, this is a fan favorite for a lot of people. Actually, even the sci-fi sisters had mentioned

[01:01:42] [SPEAKER_00]: they're like that is in our top 10 favorite Star Trek episodes. And I was all like,

[01:01:47] [SPEAKER_00]: I believe it because it's so is mine. But I do want to real fast mention

[01:01:55] [SPEAKER_00]: of the passing of James Daren who of course played Vic Fontaine on DS9. I mean, he lived

[01:02:04] [SPEAKER_00]: a great life, 88 years old. But yeah, it was it was sad to hear of his passing. And of course,

[01:02:12] [SPEAKER_00]: I think I retweeted that he's with Aaron and they're together again. I think Jay was like,

[01:02:19] [SPEAKER_00]: this is too early to be to be playing with my emotions. I'm like, speak of the truth, man.

[01:02:24] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm just saying. But yeah, I wanted to mention that everyone has just, you know, said amazing

[01:02:31] [SPEAKER_00]: things about James. And of course, you know, James has this amazing career, you know, I mean,

[01:02:37] [SPEAKER_00]: Gidget let's just look at there. DJ Hooker too with the shadow there. Yeah. Yeah. So I mean,

[01:02:48] [SPEAKER_00]: and it was just great to see James Daren and Star Trek. And he's a brilliant singer and so

[01:02:56] [SPEAKER_05]: charismatic. And you know, I remember at the time, there were people who weren't a big fan,

[01:03:02] [SPEAKER_05]: big fans of Vic Fontaine of the character he played on DS9. I think that it wasn't the majority of

[01:03:11] [SPEAKER_05]: people at the time, I don't think but I certainly think that that that sentiment has receded somewhat

[01:03:17] [SPEAKER_05]: for most people, even those who used to used to think that not just because there are specific

[01:03:23] [SPEAKER_05]: episodes where he just does a brilliant job. But because the purpose of the character is just

[01:03:30] [SPEAKER_05]: adding this flavor and giving giving a very different type of personality for the for the

[01:03:36] [SPEAKER_05]: crew, the Starfleet crew to bounce off of. I think just from a literary standpoint was

[01:03:42] [SPEAKER_05]: a very clever tool that they introduced into this show. And I'm always really excited when

[01:03:53] [SPEAKER_05]: you can lift something up as an example of good writing, a good example of what you might do in

[01:04:01] [SPEAKER_05]: your own creative endeavors. And then when the person who's embodying that is somebody like

[01:04:07] [SPEAKER_05]: James Daren, and you're like, wow, this is this is so fantastic. They were so lucky to be able

[01:04:12] [SPEAKER_05]: to cast him to do this, to fill that role and really make it his own. Well, I think we've been

[01:04:18] [SPEAKER_00]: lucky with a lot of actors that have been able to to grace our screens. I mean, just help me out

[01:04:25] [SPEAKER_00]: here because my brain does not work but she oh dear on DS9, she was the visitor. No, she

[01:04:38] [SPEAKER_05]: very fair. Because one floor of the cook. Oh, yes. Well, now you've made me forget her name.

[01:04:44] [SPEAKER_05]: I will remember it once we stop talking about this. Another never really crushed your swig here.

[01:04:57] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I probably should have just googled this prior to, you know, before my brain stopped

[01:05:01] [SPEAKER_00]: working. But, but you know, just having

[01:05:06] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, Kai win. Yes. It was just

[01:05:12] [SPEAKER_05]: was President Fletcher, Louise Fletcher.

[01:05:18] [SPEAKER_00]: Look at that. You're faster than Google. I needed some of my Beverly juice and

[01:05:25] [SPEAKER_00]: better did it worked. Beverly is just the perfect example of Star Trek, right?

[01:05:31] [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, real real quick before I real quick before I forget because I remember this now

[01:05:35] [SPEAKER_05]: when you were reading the script to that scene that you showed of her in the bedroom,

[01:05:39] [SPEAKER_05]: you mentioned that in the script it said she had a glass of water. But in the show,

[01:05:43] [SPEAKER_05]: obviously it's clearly not water. She's got some sort of aperitif of some sort. I don't

[01:05:48] [SPEAKER_05]: know what it was. I'm thinking maybe some sort of elderflower liqueur or something like that.

[01:05:54] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not sure. I'm guessing. My husband calls it dime a tap because it's purple and it's so little.

[01:05:59] [SPEAKER_00]: He's actually saying dime a tap and I'm like, she could be.

[01:06:03] [SPEAKER_05]: I find I did not know that the script said it was water and it's and it's I don't know to me

[01:06:10] [SPEAKER_05]: that really changes the scene. And I'm wondering who came up with that idea. I would not be

[01:06:16] [SPEAKER_05]: surprised if it was Gates McFadden herself who's who's saying I think Beverly would be

[01:06:21] [SPEAKER_05]: getting ready for but she's in this luxurious nightgown dressing gown. I guess you'd call it

[01:06:28] [SPEAKER_05]: she's clipping her orchids reading a leather bound. Yeah, I can imagine Gates saying like no,

[01:06:37] [SPEAKER_05]: she would be having having something to ease her mind before sleep. Get her into that relaxed

[01:06:44] [SPEAKER_05]: mode. But I don't know. I just wanted to mention that because when you said that was a glass of

[01:06:48] [SPEAKER_05]: water in the script, I was like, whoa, that's for I don't know why to me that scene plays differently

[01:06:53] [SPEAKER_05]: if it's just a little tumbler of water that she's like taking taking some fiber pills.

[01:06:59] [SPEAKER_00]: I gotta go to bed. Yeah. Now when you're watching the scene, you're like water.

[01:07:10] [SPEAKER_00]: Have you done cause and effect on your show yet? We have. We did it a long time ago.

[01:07:14] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah. Yeah, I have to. I thought about going back and listening to that our episode of

[01:07:19] [SPEAKER_05]: It's Got Star Trek that we did on ground on a on a on cause and effect but I opted not to

[01:07:26] [SPEAKER_05]: but maybe I'll go back and I just I haven't listened you know especially those old podcasts that we've

[01:07:31] [SPEAKER_05]: been doing it for I don't know five years now or some of it. There's a lot of episodes. Yeah,

[01:07:36] [SPEAKER_05]: we just did episode 254 and that's not even counting like bonus and extra episodes so we've

[01:07:41] [SPEAKER_05]: been at it for a while and that was way early. We did early because it was one of you know,

[01:07:46] [SPEAKER_05]: it's one of all of our one of all of our favorites. All the hosts on that on the It's Got Star Trek

[01:07:50] [SPEAKER_05]: podcast so I'm kind of curious. I do remember that one thing we harped on about was how

[01:07:56] [SPEAKER_05]: scary it was that the ship keeps looming and data is just sort of casually saying like, oh,

[01:08:00] [SPEAKER_05]: I think we should use the tractor beam and this is the background. The ship is just

[01:08:05] [SPEAKER_05]: coming right at us. Oh my god. We all have a competency fetish but that's I don't know if

[01:08:11] [SPEAKER_05]: that's competency. I'm gonna delay us a little bit by calmly stating my suggestion anyway.

[01:08:20] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, Riker did it calmly just faster. He did. A little faster. A little more

[01:08:26] [SPEAKER_00]: desperate like let's figure this out in two seconds. Like there's a giant ship

[01:08:31] [SPEAKER_00]: that's about to smash right into us. What do we do? But you know what Patrick, thank you so much

[01:08:38] [SPEAKER_00]: for joining me today and talking about your favorite episode and all these fun sci-fi and not so sci-fi

[01:08:44] [SPEAKER_00]: time loop episodes and movies. I hope you had fun today but tell the audience where they can find

[01:08:52] [SPEAKER_05]: you. Oh, all right. Well first of all, thank you for having me on. I was so excited when

[01:08:59] [SPEAKER_05]: you reached out to me and you wanted to have me back. So it's nice to come on. It's even nicer to

[01:09:04] [SPEAKER_05]: come back. It's like, I guess I did something right. So thanks for that and I did. I had a

[01:09:09] [SPEAKER_05]: wonderful time and again just as I said doing a podcast is a great excuse to watch Star Trek.

[01:09:14] [SPEAKER_05]: This was an added excuse to watch Star Trek but also to look up all the facts. That's part

[01:09:21] [SPEAKER_05]: of the fun too. So thanks a lot. Folks who may be interested in our podcast, which is

[01:09:28] [SPEAKER_05]: nominally called the It's Got Star Trek podcast, that's what we generally call it.

[01:09:34] [SPEAKER_05]: And as advertised, it's a Star Trek podcast. If you'd like to check us out, you can go to

[01:09:41] [SPEAKER_05]: It'sGotStarTrek.com or search for us on any of the podcast players. We are a silly podcast.

[01:09:49] [SPEAKER_05]: We try to have fun. Every week we discuss an episode of Star Trek bouncing around the whole

[01:09:56] [SPEAKER_05]: Star Trek universe and when there's new shows on, we do weekly coverage of the new shows. But

[01:10:02] [SPEAKER_05]: we try to have fun. We all love Star Trek. We don't think we don't have any negative

[01:10:07] [SPEAKER_05]: thoughts even if we maybe don't like a particular episode here or there but

[01:10:11] [SPEAKER_05]: we always try to approach things in a positive way and a goofy fun way.

[01:10:17] [SPEAKER_05]: And we're often successful. So I'll tell you, if folks are curious,

[01:10:24] [SPEAKER_05]: if you're wondering if you'd like our show, my recommendation is go back a couple episodes,

[01:10:30] [SPEAKER_05]: listen to our episode on Rascals. I forget that was episode 251, something like that. It's recent.

[01:10:38] [SPEAKER_05]: That's one of my favorite episodes that we've done, certainly in recent times. Rascals is

[01:10:43] [SPEAKER_05]: of course a great episode for a variety of reasons. And I think we were just firing on all

[01:10:49] [SPEAKER_05]: cylinders that week. So I think that's a good one to listen to if you're unsure. Otherwise,

[01:10:54] [SPEAKER_00]: pop on a recent one and hopefully you'll enjoy it. Yes. I particularly enjoyed your subrosa.

[01:11:05] [SPEAKER_00]: I was all like, oh, here we go. I mean, honestly though, I was pleasantly surprised.

[01:11:12] [SPEAKER_00]: Great. I appreciate that. I think, like I said, I'm 30 years late to the party. People love making

[01:11:19] [SPEAKER_05]: fun of that episode. It's totally fine. Well, I really credit you with shifting my view on that

[01:11:24] [SPEAKER_05]: episode a little bit too and it comes down again to that fact that well, it's that when

[01:11:31] [SPEAKER_05]: you're watching it, I watched that episode. I was probably 13, 14 years old. I was exactly

[01:11:36] [SPEAKER_05]: the age where you're like, this is ridiculous and hilarious and a little titillating. But

[01:11:45] [SPEAKER_05]: you know, I've not watched it many times since and you know, you start to get, you see it in

[01:11:48] [SPEAKER_05]: different ways, but your perspective and for folks who haven't heard your perspective yet,

[01:11:53] [SPEAKER_05]: you know, you did it not too long ago with Danny. I thought you did a really good job

[01:11:58] [SPEAKER_05]: on that. I know you've discussed it in multiple venues, but you really do help

[01:12:05] [SPEAKER_05]: reconceptualize that episode in a lot of ways and there's some really positive stuff.

[01:12:10] [SPEAKER_05]: You know, and there's still goofy stuff. It's an odd episode in a lot of ways, but I really

[01:12:17] [SPEAKER_05]: was very impressed with your take, have been because I've heard you give your take multiple

[01:12:23] [SPEAKER_05]: times. And again, for the very few number of folks who haven't heard your take yet,

[01:12:28] [SPEAKER_05]: they really ought to because it's not only a good take, I think it's an important perspective.

[01:12:34] [SPEAKER_00]: Especially for the character of Beverly Crusher because she does get it down for it a lot. So I'm

[01:12:39] [SPEAKER_00]: like, if you just look at it just a little differently in my, you know, I'm not going

[01:12:42] [SPEAKER_00]: to change everyone's perspective obviously and I'm not going to tell everyone to stop cracking

[01:12:45] [SPEAKER_00]: jokes or whatever. It is what it is. But you know, you might be able to enjoy it

[01:12:52] [SPEAKER_00]: seeing it in a different light, you know, no pun intended because it's

[01:12:55] [SPEAKER_00]: right. You're welcome. I'm here all week.

[01:13:03] [SPEAKER_00]: When the brain's working, it happens. But I think in this case, it's just,

[01:13:08] [SPEAKER_00]: there are just specific episodes that I like to discuss and really break, you know,

[01:13:13] [SPEAKER_00]: peel back the onion if you will of just exploring those things. And like you said,

[01:13:18] [SPEAKER_00]: it's really fun to go into the deep dive and fun facts and how they created it,

[01:13:23] [SPEAKER_00]: what they had, how the actors approached it. So I always enjoyed that kind of stuff. And so

[01:13:30] [SPEAKER_00]: when I figured that I could really do this with Star Trek and I could talk with other people,

[01:13:34] [SPEAKER_00]: it just made it so much more fun because I've always been a creative person.

[01:13:38] [SPEAKER_00]: Like when I was a Xena fan, I'm telling you I was 10 and 16. That was my life of all Xena.

[01:13:43] [SPEAKER_00]: I made websites, I had fan fiction, I made scripts.

[01:13:48] [SPEAKER_05]: Do you have any screenshots of those websites or do they learn somewhere?

[01:13:52] [SPEAKER_00]: On GeoCities or something? I had GeoCities and Angel Fire.

[01:13:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Those were my things. Yeah, I learned HTML coding just to create these websites.

[01:14:03] [SPEAKER_00]: And I think also it was just, I just loved creating this kind of stuff. And I was continuing

[01:14:10] [SPEAKER_00]: it with Days of Our Lives and Once Upon a Time. And I just grew to enjoy it. But unfortunately

[01:14:16] [SPEAKER_00]: some fandoms are not the greatest. And so made it not fun anymore. But with Star Trek,

[01:14:24] [SPEAKER_00]: it's just always fun. Like even after over two years that I've been doing this, it's just always been

[01:14:30] [SPEAKER_00]: fun to interact and create things. And just, you know, this is kind of like, I always say,

[01:14:36] [SPEAKER_00]: this is my therapy. Right? Yeah, it's just, it makes it really nice to just release all

[01:14:43] [SPEAKER_00]: of that stress and talk about stuff that you enjoy and then even learning new things.

[01:14:48] [SPEAKER_05]: And it's a big fandom and it's a diverse fandom, which I think is part of what's brilliant about

[01:14:53] [SPEAKER_05]: it because there are a number of shows that I love. But it could be that the fandom is just

[01:14:58] [SPEAKER_05]: so small that they're all great people but there's just not enough, there's not,

[01:15:03] [SPEAKER_05]: the threshold hasn't been met for enough people to really generate the community

[01:15:08] [SPEAKER_05]: that has been built up around Star Trek. And there are negative aspects of the Star Trek community

[01:15:16] [SPEAKER_05]: but they tend to be sort of sequestered and pocketed away unlike some other fandoms that we know

[01:15:23] [SPEAKER_05]: that we might even be a part of where it's a little bit more of an overt problem.

[01:15:29] [SPEAKER_05]: And it's nice to just, you know people have your back, you know? And I think that's

[01:15:34] [SPEAKER_05]: part of the Star Trek fandom that's so fantastic and you can meet people from around the world.

[01:15:39] [SPEAKER_05]: And we've had this opportunity to meet fans that have traveled around, you know, we see them in

[01:15:45] [SPEAKER_05]: other countries or where they happen to be visiting where we live and get to interact with them in

[01:15:49] [SPEAKER_05]: person. And I mean, I know that exists in some other fandoms but I think probably Star Trek is

[01:15:56] [SPEAKER_05]: the fandom where that's most likely to happen. Anywhere in the world you can go, you can

[01:16:02] [SPEAKER_05]: run into somebody who would just love to sit and chat about cause and effect or some bros or

[01:16:08] [SPEAKER_00]: any of those. Exactly. I mean, even at the Star Trek convention people were like,

[01:16:14] [SPEAKER_00]: you're a Crusher Convo and I'm like, how do you know who I am? Right? But it was cool because

[01:16:18] [SPEAKER_00]: then it was like we really enjoy what you're saying so I'm like, okay, I'm not being an idiot.

[01:16:24] [SPEAKER_00]: But I've learned so much from this fandom versus the other fandoms. The other fandoms could be

[01:16:29] [SPEAKER_00]: too toxic in the sense that you get caught in that toxicity. Well, this one it's like,

[01:16:35] [SPEAKER_00]: no, I can state my piece and be fine with it but I could also just walk away and just do what I

[01:16:41] [SPEAKER_00]: enjoy and just not have to deal with anything else. So yeah, I've definitely learned a lot

[01:16:47] [SPEAKER_00]: in that aspect. And I feel like, you know, I think I even told us to Aaron Wolke where I

[01:16:52] [SPEAKER_00]: was like, I feel like I've become a better person because of it. I mean, it was like,

[01:16:55] [SPEAKER_05]: that's what Star Trek is about. I would say the same thing about myself. I think it was a

[01:17:01] [SPEAKER_05]: fortunate thing when I was a young kid and I remember I saw commercials for Star Trek. I

[01:17:07] [SPEAKER_05]: thought it was scary and terrifying had no interest in it. And I think by the way,

[01:17:12] [SPEAKER_05]: talking about that, you know, being stuck on one channel, I think that's exactly what happened.

[01:17:16] [SPEAKER_05]: It was Nickelodeon or something. I saw that I saw TAS there was I just that was what was

[01:17:21] [SPEAKER_05]: on the TV. And I had to watch it. I fell in love with it. And as soon as I finished TAS,

[01:17:26] [SPEAKER_05]: I started watching the original series. And then that's when I got into TNG and started

[01:17:32] [SPEAKER_05]: watching that watching it week to week from that point forward. And I think part of it is, you

[01:17:38] [SPEAKER_05]: know, I know there's a million different stories they tell, but so many of the stories center

[01:17:43] [SPEAKER_05]: on being empathetic, being intelligent, being competent, being a team member. And if that's

[01:17:51] [SPEAKER_05]: what attracts you to the show, then when it comes to the fans, there's a high probability

[01:17:56] [SPEAKER_05]: that the fans are going to have that same attitude or are going to want to adopt that

[01:18:01] [SPEAKER_05]: same attitude because they see something in that that impresses them and they want to be

[01:18:06] [SPEAKER_05]: more like that. So I definitely think the show can make you a better person. And I think

[01:18:11] [SPEAKER_05]: a lot of people who watch the show are pretty awesome people. That's been my experience.

[01:18:16] [SPEAKER_00]: And and it's yeah, it's just fantastic. No, well, thanks to the franchise I've got to meet amazing

[01:18:22] [SPEAKER_00]: people like you and, you know, Cameron green shirt. Just so many people, you know, I mean,

[01:18:30] [SPEAKER_00]: even I've gotten to meet with Tim and Fs of Popcast and things like that. And he's

[01:18:33] [SPEAKER_00]: starting to watch Star Trek for the first time. So it's great. I know it's so awesome. So

[01:18:38] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm keeps growing. We're just really people in. But you know what, guys, if you want to find me,

[01:18:47] [SPEAKER_00]: you can always subscribe, like share and comment here on YouTube. And as you could see,

[01:18:54] [SPEAKER_00]: it is Star Trek Day. So I hope you guys are celebrating and having fun doing what you need

[01:19:00] [SPEAKER_00]: to do today. If you want more pressure content, you could also find me on Apple podcast, Spotify,

[01:19:09] [SPEAKER_00]: Good Pods or wherever you'd love to listen to your audio podcasts. You can buy Crusher Convo Merch over

[01:19:14] [SPEAKER_00]: at T public. You can support the podcast by buying me a coffee. Just scan that QR code

[01:19:19] [SPEAKER_00]: on the top right corner and you can find all this information on Crusher Convo dot com.

[01:19:26] [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, this was great. Thank you, Patrick so much. I had a blast. I'm so happy we got to discuss

[01:19:32] [SPEAKER_00]: this. So you know, we have to do this again. Absolutely. Now guys, I am going to be taking

[01:19:38] [SPEAKER_00]: a little bit of a break. So this is going to be the last episode for this month. I might be

[01:19:43] [SPEAKER_00]: dropping a couple bonus episodes we'll see. But my first live back will be Beverly Crusher Day,

[01:19:49] [SPEAKER_00]: where I'll be discussing on a visitor's new book, Women of Trek. So I'm very,

[01:19:54] [SPEAKER_00]: very excited about that. And then after that, I will be deep diving just like Patrick here with

[01:19:58] [SPEAKER_00]: his trio of It's Got Star Trek, where we'll be reviewing season five and the final season of

[01:20:03] [SPEAKER_00]: Lower Decks. So and that I will be closing up my season two. So it's been a great year coming back.

[01:20:09] [SPEAKER_00]: I think everyone who has supported me just like you Patrick. So I really appreciate it. And yeah,

[01:20:16] [SPEAKER_00]: guys, I guess that's that's everything live long and prosper. Thank you, Patrick. Have fun

[01:20:22] [SPEAKER_00]: everybody. Bye bye. Crusher out.