Ep: 031 "The Traveler's Return" Interview with Aaron Waltke

[00:00:00] I think I'm saying that we struggle all our lives to answer it, but it's the struggle that is important. That's what helps us to define our place in the universe. This is our Beverly, Dr. Beverly, Dr. Dr. Beverly Crusher, Honest. Forceful. Trusting. Brilliant. Strong. In adventurous.

[00:00:26] And this is Crusher Convo. Hey guys and welcome to Crusher Convo. When we were crushing the conversation one episode at a time, I am super excited because I have a special interview with Aaron Waltke from Star Trek Producti.

[00:00:44] I was very excited as everyone else was with season two because we got Wesley Crusher and we got Beverly Crusher and the reunion we've been wanting to see.

[00:00:55] So I was very honored that he was able to take his time and be able to have this interview with me. So here it is guys, enjoy. Welcome Aaron and thank you for joining me today.

[00:01:09] Here at Crusher Convo we love to crush the conversation one episode at a time and you guys definitely crushed it with season two in more ways. Well on behalf of the whole team, thank you that that means a lot, you know,

[00:01:25] especially there are elements of this season that I think we were gearing towards fans of the Crusher family. So I'm glad that we appreciate that. Thank you. Seeing of approval. Yes, now you have explained about how the process went down for season two when you were on Larry

[00:01:40] Nemachick show and you mentioned that Wesley was the pitch for season two. So why was it so important for you guys to bring Wesley back and create the story around this character?

[00:01:50] Well there was there's a few sort of elements involved in the decision, you know, because something we've always said in Star Trek Prattagee is like we don't really have just the nature of how much it costs to even build the model and cast someone and stuff.

[00:02:04] It's not our interest to cast someone lightly, you know, if they're going to be their characters going to be brought into our show.

[00:02:14] And not only wanted to have a profound influence on our main characters, the prodigy crew, but we also want the story of our season to affect those characters and have it be a thankful experience for them.

[00:02:26] So when it came to you know, how can we kind of expand I guess the purview of our show. You know, as people have pointed out, perhaps rightfully so it is very Voyager heavy because obviously when you have Kate Mulgrew you take advantage of that and also.

[00:02:43] And also when you have the character of Admiral Janeway, you know, it does take it makes sense to us that she would rely on people that she knew and it would be the service to not go that direction.

[00:02:58] But for season two we wanted to capitalize I think in part on our own decision very from the beginning is like we don't want this to be a Voyager sequel we want this to be a sequel to all of Star Trek.

[00:03:13] You know, that's part of our mandate to introduce new and young audiences to everything that makes Star Trek great.

[00:03:20] And that includes like fun fun original science fiction concepts but it also, you know, lightly or sometimes not so lightly means hey there's 60 years of other TV shows out there and some of them are are very good and you should go check those out as well.

[00:03:39] So that was kind of our thinking it was like okay let's not let's who else can we kind of bring in that would make sense and what and feel she hardened in.

[00:03:47] And obviously a big part of our season was dealing with the complexities and unintended consequences of time travel.

[00:03:56] And when it and especially with the the business with the future soul and that the designer coming from an alternate timeline and crossing over into hours we were like gosh we need someone who's an expert. And I wonder yeah.

[00:04:14] And you know, I think one of our writer producers, Jim Merrow said it first but it was like three seconds ahead of me and we almost at the same time we're like what's the pressure.

[00:04:24] You know better to guide these young people through the guardian not of temporal tiny, why me nonsense that they found.

[00:04:32] Then the original prodigy and that it really made sense to us as Wesley in many ways kind of represented kind of what the next generation was trying to do in terms of reaching young people and showing them grow into you know.

[00:04:46] Their own role whether it belongs to Starfleet or not the parallels with two. Obvious to us and not see the potential for a sort of both kind of like a virtual you know who guides Dante. Yeah.

[00:05:02] Through the afterlife but also a mentorship of sorts and also a ghost of Christmas future in a way of like you know if you if my if you ascend to your potential you know you could be somebody like Wesley Crusher.

[00:05:17] But we also didn't want to have Wesley just be like a god he's not a cue he's a person that is just sort of achieved the you know the next ascended state of humanity in a way.

[00:05:29] And that's what the traveler had it sort of alluded to throughout TNG and it was this sort of like dangling question mark for a lot of Star Trek fans minds of like well what's going on with that. Right right.

[00:05:44] So it all became sort of just hismit of like there's too many factors that work together for our show that not only would it be what it would it slot in nicely but it actually would help our show a lot.

[00:05:57] The themes of this season that it may complete sense to us. Oh yeah the puzzle pieces just fit perfectly like you said he's the original prodigy and he knows about time travel and time and space and things like that.

[00:06:09] Now I'm actually new to the fandom just started watching it in 2022 TNG was my gateway yeah and then I just just don't write in and here's a podcast and all this stuff.

[00:06:20] I fell love with Beverly Crusher because of she represented single moms that's who I was and stuff like that so it was nice to see that.

[00:06:27] And I also really enjoyed Wesley and so it was really nice especially a lot of the Crusher fans you know they've been waiting like where's Wesley like what where's Wesley we've been wanting this to see what has he been doing since he left the next generation.

[00:06:42] I even said like we have a little snippet in Nemesis but it kind of doesn't exist because he was just at the wedding table and that was it right so technically we don't really know what's been going on.

[00:06:53] But one of the things that I saw when I was watching season two of prodigy was that you know the timelines collapsing in the room or race in existence it kind of remind me of Star Trek Kota the book Kota.

[00:07:04] And where Wesley was also pivotal to the story so are you a fan of the expand in universe with the Star Trek books.

[00:07:10] So I really like this the expanded universe of Star Trek books certainly and one of the writers of Kota David Mack you know is a friend and he was a he was a consultant on season one of prodigy as we were kind of getting our great.

[00:07:27] You know in terms of the Kota books specifically you know we didn't have time to read them because we were so you know an ankle deep and trying so I bet yeah make prodigy but I've since even spoken with David it's just like how interesting that we you know.

[00:07:44] But given the same sandbox with the same toys of like yeah and this and the same question mark we kind of arrived at the same conclusions and in many ways we're like in in my mind at least it confirms we must have gotten it right you know yeah yeah and.

[00:08:02] It was actually delightful to hear that that they had arrived at similar conclusions to us.

[00:08:09] Yeah I think that helps to because you guys are such fans of the franchise so you kind of understand as how it works a little bit you know because you've been watching these characters for so long.

[00:08:21] Yeah I did get doctor who vibes that was watching with the I think even Dalsad timey why me at one point I was like yes doctor and Wesley's behavior was very like 11th doctor to me.

[00:08:33] You know that you know Matt Smith just kind of all over the place was the franchise and inspiration while you guys were writing this.

[00:08:40] It was one of many you know I think even even will himself has said you know in his fan fiction I'm sorry and his head cannon and I think in some of his his own fiction that he has written.

[00:08:54] I think was published in one of the anthologies that in fact you know he did picture Wesley Crusher is kind of becoming a force for good traversing the multiverse which again is all drawn directly from cannon like even from the first appearance of the traveler.

[00:09:11] I think one of the the riker someone says are you from the future you from another dimension and the traveler just sort of like esoterically says yes something like that as you would understand it.

[00:09:26] So like clearly they're operating in realms far beyond hours and I was so excited for that next chapter that never quite came and so yeah when we when we picked when we we had the opportunity to bring will back and kind of fulfilled that and canonize in many ways I think even what he had been picturing.

[00:09:46] You know it was it was certainly a pleasure to do so and it makes sense that like characters that traverse that's been most of their formative years you know traversing the multiverse with the power of their thoughts.

[00:10:00] And trying to hold you know infinite timelines in their head at one time they are going to probably be a little bit scatterbrained here they're in you know as someone who has ADHD I completely empathize.

[00:10:13] For the little daughter has ADHD I was like this is a typical Thursday. Yeah exactly and there's nothing wrong with that it's just a different for your brain to be wired.

[00:10:23] And you know another element there were other elements at play as well like I think there was a moment where.

[00:10:31] When Wesley first reveals himself like oh I didn't realize we hadn't met yet you know that there's a little bit of river song and that I suppose but I think at the time when we put that in it was actually a reference to T.S. White's Sword and the Stone which I think was adapted at some point into a Disney film.

[00:10:52] But in the original book they capitalize on an an interesting element of Merlin you know from lore in that Merlin ages backwards and so when Merlin. Yeah so when Merlin first meets our young Arthur when he's just a sort of a boy.

[00:11:12] Yeah he's Arthur's like good to meet you and then suddenly Merlin is startled and he's like oh this is so sad this is the last time we'll see each other you know and so like that sort of backwards. I'm going river song vibes.

[00:11:25] Right yeah I think river song borrowed from that but I we were definitely thinking I guess the inspiration even for that when we kind of wrote some of those elements in. Yeah and even Wesley did say he's like no one like spoilers.

[00:11:40] Yeah yeah that was river song we appreciate that too because there is a lot of fans who love not you know not only Star Trek but like Beverly Crusher and stuff like that but our huge river song fans so.

[00:11:52] We were having so much fun when we were watching this season now the reunion in Beverly and Wesley was so special for us because we were so sad with season three of the card because Wesley wasn't there we didn't know it was going on she's saying she's you know lost a son of her like what happened.

[00:12:09] So that reunion how special was it for you guys to be able to bring it to life. It was it was wonderful and it was it was kind of kism it in a way because we were already thinking about.

[00:12:24] We'd already pitched the season to the network of like this is what we want to do with the season time why me they have you know they have Wesley Crusher as their mentor and when we put shut the story for Wesley we said you know he's someone who effectively has become sort of untethered from from his own life in a way and that you know he's just like.

[00:12:44] Transition might be married to the sea he's become sort of married to the cosmos and he spends every waking moments trying to protect the people from his former life. But doing so he's kind of forgotten how to live and so we thought wouldn't be nice.

[00:12:59] To at least have the the events of this season are the characters we're in their he interacts with kind of remind him that like bow you don't have officially sacrifice everything about yourself in your form of life.

[00:13:10] You know, you can, and who better to sort of embody that than him reconnecting with his family. And so when season two of Picard rolled around, they obviously were dealing with a supervisors and that sort of thing.

[00:13:27] And then as they were approaching the end of writing season two of Picard, they said, hey, we know you're using Wesley. We'd like for them to meet a traveler and it feels like it would be strange. It was just a random person, could have been Wesley.

[00:13:43] And we were like this seems like a great opportunity of anything because your show is going to come out first. It will almost be like a teaser for what's to come.

[00:13:52] So to a key of a gold's been great credit, you know, he led us, he wrote a version of the monologue sent it to us. You know, I had a chance to polish it and work in specific references to our show and align it with that.

[00:14:06] Align it to how Wesley was in our show. Although that in a way that could almost serve as a coda of like okay, he's learning to reconnect. He's bringing people back in. He's not doing it by himself.

[00:14:17] And then as Picard sees in three rolled around, you know, obviously Beverly is such a big part of that. And she kind of makes illusions to how she's kind of lost her son to the cosmos.

[00:14:29] And so we talked to we had a number of, a long conversations with Terry about like okay, what is the timeline? What's the story here?

[00:14:37] And thankfully Terry was, Mattalis was completely on board of like I see the bitter sweet beauty of the at least having this reunion even if it's the last one for a while.

[00:14:49] And so we wanted him to see his mother certainly and then when Jack came into the picture, we were like what we have to have Jack there.

[00:14:59] I guess like that if what's you know it reminded us of just sort of like if you know if you have a relative who's like in the military or something and then comes home. Meet a young one for the first time and felt very poetic to us.

[00:15:17] You know from a production standpoint we didn't have the money to build a Jack model as a tablet. Yeah, yeah. But we were like actually I think it would be even even more beautiful if you stay on Wesley's face and the excitement.

[00:15:32] Yeah, as he sees what what he's been missing and meets Jack for the first time. And you can really hear the emotion in in gates and wills voices as they act out this scene that they clearly they have been thinking about you know for a while you know.

[00:15:51] It was a beautiful scene and beautifully acted and directed I'm so glad that it turned out as well as it did.

[00:15:58] This was good for them because I know they expressed how they didn't get a lot of scenes in the next generation right because Wesley always kind of deferred to them the male characters and a lot of sense even though Beverly was the one that raised him.

[00:16:11] But it was very special for them to be able to do this scene because they didn't really get a lot of that you know I think. Yeah, so he's expressed how she was like I really just wanted some good scenes with my sons both of them.

[00:16:24] I mean she did get some good ones it was only 10 episodes they could only do so much but for next generation she just felt like there was you know not enough.

[00:16:33] And that aspect so I think this you guys just put a perfect little bow on that story that they wanted to do for so long.

[00:16:43] Did will engage have anything to say with these characters of how they wanted to do especially since you know will so important to the story.

[00:16:51] Oh absolutely you know you'll have to ask will if you can ever get him on the podcast but you know we wrote a a draft for him to look at and say does this feel right to you.

[00:17:05] And for the most part he was like this is great but he just had a few little you know touches to the lines and punch ups that I was like oh what a great resource that we'll listen to.

[00:17:16] A writer so he can kind of like he can you know put put some of that in there like I think the you know it was a lot of really small things of just sort of like.

[00:17:28] I think at one point he's like it's going to draw that they're going to be drawn to us like a you know a subspace beacon or something like that is a girl that's a little grace note sort of.

[00:17:38] Marking back to will or to to Wesley's sort of experience and sort of like a gadget obsessed to young man aboard a starship. Yeah, you would use analogies like that.

[00:17:48] Right, you know and I think the first version we had written he's he's like I it feels very doctor and I love it but it's like I want to say he was like it feels more like the eighth doctor I wanted to be more like the tenth or eleven there's another like that so we kind of.

[00:18:03] Yes, took that note and yeah. Wait at work. That's all of my doctors.

[00:18:10] Yeah, and yeah, Gates McFadden also you know had some various student things to contribute you know she obviously helped us out in season one in the episode that I had written called Kobe Ashie where she came. And sort of holographic version of herself. Right.

[00:18:29] And then when we brought her in for this she read read the sides and she just was like you know I just want to double check and and so we want to popping on a call a Terry just to make sure.

[00:18:41] And I turned out I think there was like one line where we didn't realize it but it implied I think that's that Wesley would come and visit her all the time and she was like I don't think that's true to the character or relationship as we see it.

[00:18:55] And we were like we totally agree that's not what we were trying to apply.

[00:19:00] So so every they were all very much on board and actively contributing to make sure that this moment wouldn't be distracted by sort of you know can and obsessed like timeline stuff and just be able to embrace it as the Crusher frame family reunion that it was.

[00:19:16] Yeah, exactly now you guys I feel like do love the Crusher because like you said you brought her back in season one that was the first time we saw Beverly since the first time we saw Beverly.

[00:19:24] So we saw Beverly since nebuses right and then now you go back Wesley and now even baby Jack. So what is it about the Crusher family that you feel that makes him so special in the franchise?

[00:19:34] Well, I'll start by saying TNG was my gateway Star Trek like literally my my first memory as a child I was maybe three or four was sitting on the couch with my dad as these you know the saucer separation.

[00:19:53] I've heard as the sweeping fanfare play and so I love TNG.

[00:20:00] Outright and you know I think why Wesley was originally added by Jean Ronberry to be sort of like a surrogate in some ways for young people like me to watch and say hey I can do great things too it's not just adults.

[00:20:19] So however people may have initially felt about his character you know being a wonder can and doing everything that the adults couldn't I was right there for it. And I was like cool he's a prodigy awesome he's on the bridge he's going to the crew I love it.

[00:20:35] And you know I was almost surprised to hear that at one point that no but not everyone felt that way because I love them as you do.

[00:20:45] And you know I think that in a way it could the the holistically I think the the Crusher family contributed something very interesting to the Star Trek mythos because.

[00:21:01] You know TOS to my knowledge didn't have any families there are many very many families I think at one point there's like a wedding that that they officiate on the original series but there was no there was no families living aboard the enterprise and that that to me was like oh that's the future the future is we don't have to be confined you know by these these the mortal coils of earth.

[00:21:29] You know that home is not a place it's who you're with and you know you can live a satisfactory life well also being a board of science vessel that's dedicated towards curiosity and wonder and discovery.

[00:21:46] And you know in a very sort of abstract way I found that very inspirational and I wanted to see more of that you know I didn't want I didn't I listen I love the paramilitary sort of like you know fire photo photon don't you don't have.

[00:22:03] It's great but I think the heart of Star Trek is in those little moments with families in you know 10 forward you know having conversations about the next hola sweet thing or what's wrong with.

[00:22:16] Or yeah and in many ways I think that that relationship that we saw with the crushers embody that. Yeah for sure.

[00:22:37] Now I actually have a couple of fan questions that I want to get to before we leave first one is from press and he's from first by podcast.

[00:22:47] And his question is prodigy fits perfectly into established canon how does it hearing to cannon enrich the storytelling process as you've crafted both seasons of prodigy.

[00:22:58] It that's a great question you know I think sometimes cannon can be intimidating in in that you know Star Trek with the exception of Dr who I think is one of the longest running.

[00:23:12] Cotton knewdy wise science fiction franchises that exists were 60 years of television a sense of what all takes place in one universe and everything counts and everything happened. Yeah.

[00:23:27] But to me that's exciting because that's that's just world building you know like and it there I've never had you know any fear or problem with playing with the toys I've given if I'm allowed to bring in other toys as well and you know.

[00:23:46] And I think that the canon of Star Trek in particular is so ingrained not only in me and many of the writers but I think in pop culture we didn't want to do it a disservice by just completely ignoring it and as I alluded to before is a big part of the premise of our show is.

[00:24:07] So starting very small in a very remote place and gradually opening up that world of Star Trek to new audiences and so.

[00:24:16] The canon of anything is is a chance for us to do that and help it all feel as a whole and yeah and I you know and I think that's not even. I knew idea you know I think the Burmeneira.

[00:24:30] You know, Picard Picard was on the first episode of Deep Space Nine and Voyager launched from Deep Space Nine you know like it all connects in a way that. Yeah, I think viewers in the 90s that was the original shared universe right.

[00:24:47] I think showing new new audiences the wonders of that was a paramount important importance for us. Yeah, now our next question from Rachel was there anything you got push back on or had to change to keep the show kid friendly.

[00:25:05] Yeah, there's been a few not many though you know to first I want to say that like the creative executives at Nickelodeon and CBS are were phenomenal and are.

[00:25:17] You know they very little did they ever push back and if anything it was just clarity questions of just like you know how how did they find that to burn.

[00:25:27] Yeah, that was on the on the prototypes like oh it was in a black box with a beacon on it and they're like great put a beacon on it stuff like that.

[00:25:35] But in terms of like you know what what's kind of referring to what's known as standards and practices which is like is it imitative role is it scary too scary very little did that really come into play.

[00:25:49] Maybe it's just because Star Trek always is a little bit kind of fanciful even when a red shirt gets vaporized or something right right just turn into like Halloween skeletons and you move on. Yeah, I mean conspiracy and TNG that was a bit much.

[00:26:02] Yeah, I mean that's talk about body horror for sure. But there are there were a couple instances that I can think of like one I remember there's a really wonderful episode in season one called time mark which in which the the the

[00:26:18] Protostar crew get trapped in this sort of like fractured time where each of them has to solve a a work car breach before before it explodes but they have different amounts of time to do so.

[00:26:32] Yeah, and so we initially got pushed back on that episode for a couple of reasons one we just had a bunch of young people exploding on a team ship over and over again. And and be the second issue.

[00:26:48] Yeah, but then this the second issue was was they were really we originally had written in how long rock had been in in her time sort of anomaly and it was and it was they were like you can't keep her her in there for for that long.

[00:27:07] And so the answer to which they were fine with and to their again to their great credit once they saw how we executed there like you know.

[00:27:15] Not rescinded this is beautiful because we made it clear that it was about hope like it was about like if you can't do it you rely on the rest of you the rest of your team the rest of your crew to achieve what you cannot.

[00:27:31] And together we'll pull each other out of this seemingly impossible situation and then the other way we addressed it was like we did we just took out how long she'd been and said she was in there for too long which ironically I think made it worse.

[00:27:47] And then in season two I don't think we got much of any S&P pushback the only one I can remember is there's a scene with the doctor when he's fighting off the loom and protecting the young cadets and he pulls out his hypospray and the original on it in the original version I think he was like saying you know.

[00:28:08] Take 10 10 milligrams of an S the scene and five 50 milligrams of citrusy and nothing was working. But they didn't want kids going into their medicine cabinets and spraying you know eating this.

[00:28:20] So so they said can he just be something a little bit more dramatic and that's when we came up with how 20 milligrams of vengeance you other world leader and. Yeah, that was how we addressed that one.

[00:28:33] So our next question is from Abby she says now that you're a dad has it changed or deep into any of your thoughts and feelings about your work on prodigy.

[00:28:42] It has I think you know especially with the world being as fractured and strange and uncertain as it seems to be every day.

[00:28:54] I find myself sort of cling to like what can I do is an individual both as a father and the citizen and just a moral human. To make the world the better place for my daughter.

[00:29:06] And I think the one thing I know that stories can still do is to inspire.

[00:29:16] And so I think with Star Trek in particular Star Trek inspired me and helps kind of mold me into the into the person that I am today my ethical kind of ground work and my personal outlook and philosophy on you know the unknown is not shouldn't be scary.

[00:29:38] I think the challenge and an opportunity opportunity to grow and learn more about ourselves and you know reaching out to cultures different than ourselves. And finding that common ground and helping helping others without any assumption of return.

[00:29:58] And I think that is a very powerful thing to do with our own and we are all very starfleet ideals and I think it's something that I you know I I'm glad that we put it into this season and I will probably continue to do so into all of my work because you know I think sincerity and hope.

[00:30:13] Our cool man like you know there's enough there's enough jaded cynicism in the world like just dream dream of a better tomorrow and getting there with your. And I think that's what you're on spaceship earth.

[00:30:25] Yeah, I mean I feel like I've learned a lot just from Star Trek these last couple years and grown into like a better person. And it's amazing how you can learn something from like that but that's why I created the podcasts I feel like.

[00:30:39] And just had those qualities that Star Trek represents right so you know it was you know it's been interesting for me and my journey just from learning from Star Trek you know so yeah I completely agree with everything that you said.

[00:30:54] Yeah, I think Star Trek in particular they have I think have a very good track record of showing young people coming into their own and achieving things even if the road is.

[00:31:05] Is surprising or not what they expected when they started I think I think Wesley Crusher is a great example of that but even you know, nog or or Jick Cisco or so or so many others I. Are even seven story or several story yeah.

[00:31:23] He was very young when she became a board and I think at least initially thought that was her collective and grant grew to to widen her purview in that.

[00:31:34] Yeah, and it's it's my sincere hope that that's Star Trek prodigy can become that that gateway or gatesway for so many so many other young people to kind of find some. Some reflection of what's possible for themselves.

[00:31:52] Yeah, no that's great well Erin I am so thankful for you to be joining me tonight I appreciate your time. Um cat we know hoping for season three and not gonna lie hope for more Beverly but you know we'll see season one and two I mean.

[00:32:07] That's true yeah keep the streak of yeah never stay never you know if we ever say never if we have a character model and we have somebody who's already been on our show and everyone who's been on our show they've been treated very respectfully and I think they're very happy with how it turned out.

[00:32:21] So I'm hoping we can just keep adding to our our collective as it were. Yes, no I can't wait I've enjoyed prodigy so much it's such a great show so but again thank you guys again for all this so. Little on the roster. Yeah.

[00:32:39] And that's it guys it was awesome to sit down with Erin and talk about Beverly and Wesley Crusher and just what Star Trek means to him.

[00:32:52] It was a many things experience and I felt honored to be able to have us sit down with him so yeah I hope you enjoyed that.

[00:33:01] If you guys want more Crusher combo content please subscribe here on YouTube like this video and also if you want to buy me a coffee you may be able to do that right over here.

[00:33:15] To be able to scan that code and buy me a coffee one time gift or a month like it whatever you're feeling. Uh however you want to support the show also if you want to hit me up I am on threads and Instagram at at Crusher combo.

[00:33:32] And yeah I'm just posting my videos and doing what I can I have been blessed this month with my interviews with John Billingsley with Dayton Ward and now Erin Malky.

[00:33:42] And we're just about to hit our to your anniversary so thank you guys so much really appreciate all the support really appreciate Erin for taking his time with me today and talking about Beverly and gushing about the Crusher's.

[00:33:55] But yeah I hope you guys enjoyed it see you next time live long and prosper. Pressure out.