Ep: 030 "The Ward of Star Trek" Interview with Dayton Ward

[00:00:00] I think I'm saying that we struggle all our lives to answer it, but it's the struggle that is important. That's what helps us to define our place in the universe. This is a Beverly, Dr. Beverly, Dr. Dr. Beverly Crusher, Honest. Forceful. Trusting. Brilliant. Strong. In adventurous.

[00:00:26] And this is Crusher Convo. Hey, everyone. And welcome to Crusher Convo. Well, we are a Crusher in the conversation. One episode at a time. Today I have Dayton Ward with us and we are going to be discussing his love for Star Trek and all of his works.

[00:00:43] So thank you. Thank you for joining me tonight. Well, thanks for having me. I appreciate it. So first off, I really want to thank you for your service. I was reading a bit about your bio and stuff like that.

[00:00:54] I have family and friends who have been in the service. And so I wanted to say that first off. I appreciate that. It was a long time ago, but I appreciate that. Now, originally, you not only was in the service, but you also started as a software developer.

[00:01:10] Is that correct? Yeah. I joined the service thinking I would do my four years and get my college money and go learn about computers. But they offered a computer occupational field. So I went that way. And I ended up enjoying myself doing what I was doing.

[00:01:29] I was not married at this point. So I instead of getting out after one hitch, I re-enlisted and then I did it again one more time. And then by that point, I was married and my wife and I decided that it was a good time to exit.

[00:01:45] She was getting tired of moving around and didn't want to move again. My bad. And I had been relocated to Kansas City, which at the time was the home of the Marine Corps pay and personnel center.

[00:01:58] So as an IT person, it's almost inevitable that you end up in Kansas City at that point in time. And it's a very small community, the Marine, at least at that time, the Marine Corps IT community was very small.

[00:02:11] So either new everybody or heard of everybody or new who to avoid or, you know, what kind of thing. And the job market in the late 90s was very good in IT. So I opted to exit the military and go to the private sector.

[00:02:24] And I stayed a developer for another 18 years as a civilian before finally giving that up. Now, going from that to being a full-time writer was the transition difficult for you or was it easy because it was something you wanted to do?

[00:02:41] I had started writing on the side years before maybe 12, 12, 13 years before I hung it up and became a full-time writer. So I was writing on the weekends in at night and on holidays and wherever I could find spare time.

[00:02:56] And of course, I was working a pretty long week as a developer. I was working 55, 65 hour weeks. You know, we're not uncommon. And burning the candle at both ends. You know, and I would have been happy to remain a developer.

[00:03:13] But it became less and less about being a developer and more about surviving the next layoff. And so I started to sour on the whole idea of just surviving and hanging on by my fingernails. And then my family, my number finally came up.

[00:03:28] You know, I was finally on the list of people getting laid off. And I was all sitting at my desk at home, updating my resume and trying to get up the courage to try to find an interview.

[00:03:41] You know, and you know, and sweating bullets a little bit because we had just bought a house and a new house and moved our kids into it. And so, but by that point, I've been writing professionally for, you know, over 10 years at that point.

[00:03:55] And so I had acquired a nice little network of connections and people that I could, you know, reach out to about possible work opportunities.

[00:04:05] So a lot of them used to tell me that they would have hired me to do more work at the time if I had more time to give them. But I, you know, I never did.

[00:04:12] I always had to balance the novel I was working on or the book I was working on with my day job.

[00:04:17] And so I reached out to a couple of those editors and I said, you know, how you always tell me that you hire me more often if I was more available.

[00:04:22] Hey, you know, and so because my wife, my wife convinced me to, to give up trying to find a replacement IT job and just write full time for a while and see how it worked out.

[00:04:33] And that'll be 10 years ago in September that I gave up the full time corporate gig and went writing full time. Did you do any ghost writing? I've done some ghost writing here and there obviously because of what that entails, I can't say who that ghost before.

[00:04:51] I'm getting ready, but I have picked up the occasional ghost writing gig because the money was you know good at a time when it needed to be there.

[00:04:58] So because there were some lean years on the writing front I've written things that I don't normally write or would not normally go out of my way to write but.

[00:05:07] It's because I get a very very, you know, I get a very eclectic background as far as what I can write. So, but no, I would definitely prefer to write in my own name.

[00:05:19] Oh yeah, I think it was interesting because the carry Fisher was a gross writer for for scripts and things like that. And I think it worked in her favor because her name was how people who she was.

[00:05:32] Well, that's kind of the thing is like it started out as an editor who you know I had worked with in the past. I asked me on a he called me one afternoon and asked me about hey I've got a book the authors having trouble.

[00:05:47] Do you think you could help step in and finish it or help them finish it and you know I can't pay you a lot of money, but you know all your huge favor.

[00:05:54] And I said you know okay what's the topic and they told me and I was like well that's not my normal wicked of writing.

[00:06:03] And so definitely not my normal thing and so I did that and then I he would come out he would probably reach out to me about once or twice a year for these little quick burn short novel projects.

[00:06:17] In a genre that is definitely not my normal one that I'm known for and I would write under a house name or I would write under a different name or something like that and so I'm still you know again, you know it was fun.

[00:06:31] And I wouldn't have done it if I didn't think I could have some fun with it, you know or at least get interested in the idea to get behind it I didn't strictly do it for the money.

[00:06:39] And and I thought well there's going to come a time when I'm going to give up writing Star Trek and maybe that genre will be open again. So we'll keep it. But Star Trek no let's not talk about that right here.

[00:06:51] Yeah, I mean yeah when you three lands you go wherever the money is and it's true that it. And so the original series is what got you into Star Trek. So what was it about the show that you loved so much.

[00:07:03] Well, I mean I started watching the reruns when I was a little kid. I mean I was you know first second grade and I would come home and I would watch that rerun of the original show after school and it was my mother's loan exception to the homework before TV rule.

[00:07:16] When she let me watch the start the Star Trek rerun. No, she had absolutely no interest in my infection at all until the day she died. She was like I can't believe they paid you to write that crap. That's a verbatim quote.

[00:07:28] But at the same time she was a huge you know, she was my biggest fan. You know so she was like the the official president of the Tampa chapter of my fan club.

[00:07:38] But no, she never saw what I saw. She never understood what I saw and she's like it you know my father was even less taller of it. I mean, she least she at least helped me by the comic or the book or the poster or whatever the toy, you know when I was that age.

[00:07:51] My father had no use for science fiction whatsoever he was a western and a military guy and so.

[00:07:57] But I enjoyed it because you know when I was a kid it was an action adventure show and then at the older I got I started to see the different layers of meaning and messaging in some of the episodes and the quality of the writing and you know what they were able to do with limited effects technology that was available to them back then.

[00:08:16] And then the story, you know, became the driving factor to make up for those deficiencies or lack of ability or whatever.

[00:08:24] And then by the time the movies came along that was what 12 when the first movie came out so you know I would the hook was pretty deep by that point because I'd been eating those neurons and reading the books and the comics up for all those years.

[00:08:35] So I've been pretty it's been it's been I've been pretty hardcore about it since I was a you know little kid. Now you know your books are very have a like Star Trek like they could see here and this is just your more recent.

[00:08:50] Books that you've done and you've done discovery and like we'll talk about Coda and you know next generation. The original series now is there a franchise though that you would love to write for.

[00:09:03] Oh that's not Star Trek. Oh absolutely there are several that I would love to write for off the top of my head the alien franchise.

[00:09:12] The predator franchise for older properties like when I was a kid I grew up watching along with reruns of the original show I watched you know the six million dollar man and the planet of the apes in.

[00:09:25] Space 99 and all those shows and if they you know if it's a publishing program ever focused on one of those properties I'd be on it. I did get to write a planet of the apes short story for anthology several years ago and that was a lot of fun.

[00:09:38] I would totally do that again but as far as newer properties yeah I'd write for alien predator and see I mean firefly would be fun one but I think that's a pretty close loop as far as available availability for writers.

[00:09:52] I guess I have a Star Wars I don't know if I have a Star Wars book in me but it would have to be like an old school kind of Star Wars book like like haunt and chew on the falp and doing something get into some kind of trouble.

[00:10:02] I would love that. I would love that. No no. There's probably enough ideas out there for Star Wars to think of something especially in those adventure times. Is there a book that you're the most proud of that you've written?

[00:10:17] There are all my children so it's hard to pick between them and I'm I think I'm grounded enough that I can say that not every book represents my best work.

[00:10:29] But I do think they all represent the best work I was able to do at the time I was writing the book.

[00:10:34] I always have regrets about something in every book I wrote like I wish I had done that better or I wish I'd remember to do this or something like that.

[00:10:41] I don't know if I'm the most proud but I guess the ones that I would recommend if you're trying to sample me for the first time.

[00:10:46] You know it would be like agents of influence the original series novel and I recommend that mostly because there's a stand in the little book that you don't have to write. Read other books to understand it.

[00:10:57] But if you want to get into it, if you really want to get into it, I mean I love the Vanguard series. That is probably the most fun I've ever had writing Star Trek is those books those Vanguard books that Kevin and I wrote with David Mac.

[00:11:09] And that was just such a gas to be able to do something like that which you know was fairly unprecedented at the time.

[00:11:16] I mean they were doing a lot of spin-off shows for the 24th century series in books but this was the first real serious attempt to do something for the original, you know that went alongside the original show.

[00:11:27] That will successful and then we just we let us off the chain and let us pretty much do whatever we wanted you know within reason but I mean the lines were way over.

[00:11:36] So we just I mean as people always used to say you know if you if you if you look at the original if they if they call the original series wagon train to the stars then then Vanguard was dead would in space, you know.

[00:11:49] And so and so we we all of us who participated were all huge fans of the original show we love the original show we were protective of it.

[00:11:57] And so we definitely wanted to honor the show but yet give readers some additional insight into some of the things that they may have seen on an episode or in a movie you know and and and then and then when they watch those episodes they get the connection that we tried to build with Vanguard.

[00:12:12] We're very we're all still very protective about it whenever whenever somebody says hey what about a Vanguard stop don't even go there we don't you know.

[00:12:20] We've had a couple folks. Yeah, they were like we want to write a Vanguard thing for the for the role playing game were like not while the rest of us are still alive you're not.

[00:12:30] That kind of thing I mean no I mean it's a good nature thing but we even and we didn't even resisted doing it it's like we know.

[00:12:37] When we did the seekers books which are a spinoff of Vanguard we made we made the the pack that we would not revisit the main Vanguard characters after the events of the of the Vanguard novels.

[00:12:48] We felt that their story was was done and we wanted to honor that and so they in Dave Dave wrote a book that came out last year that's an original series book that ties into the Vanguard storyline but it's set during the events of the series.

[00:13:02] The event of the vangers. So he wrote me and let her in email and he says what do you think about this you think I get away with this I'm like yeah, you're the guy that created the concept or you know I think if anybody's going to get away with it it's going to be you.

[00:13:13] And you're honoring our pact by not you know revisiting characters after that chapters closed so exactly exactly. And it isn't going to be in a great book that slots in very nicely with the rest of the vangers novels.

[00:13:26] Oh nice now of course everyone knows and I know we had talked what we met in Salt Lake that I started Star Trek in 2022 and when I got into the next generation and I was about to see Star Trek Picard everyone was like you got to read code.

[00:13:41] Like they are recommendation they're like you got to read code and I'm all like okay not knowing what I was getting myself right. I was gonna say I don't know that I called that's your entry. That's not an ideal entry point so that was my answer point.

[00:13:53] Now you guys did end that timeline of those books so beautifully to coincide with Picard. Was it hard for you though to end that timeline? You know that you guys been doing since nemesis like it was excruciating.

[00:14:07] I mean people opinions vary and that's totally valid that you know about what we did and I totally respect all but I mean anybody who doesn't think that we agonized over every decision that we made for those books does not know us and does not know what we went through.

[00:14:25] It was it was it was very challenging I mean the challenge was probably the thing that intrigued me most about it and what we were doing and we wanted to do something right.

[00:14:34] You know we thought would do right by the continuity but we get that it's a controversial choice we just did wonder the easy choice you know so and to be fair to Dave and Jim you know they were much they were they had to convince me to do things certain things in the series and I was like I don't know man that seems like you know

[00:14:52] I guess I was the holdout for something different and but they convinced me and I don't regret the choice that we made.

[00:14:59] I like to think that we did right by the whole line you know like I said I know opinions vary and I know's a valid and I respect that but it was definitely not from a lack of caring or lack of trying you know.

[00:15:14] There's some guy out there that you know that hates us because we did the books and hopes we all burn in hell or whatever and I'm just okay. Okay, well you know we're getting lying take a number because you're not the first one to ever with you.

[00:15:26] But it's yeah I mean we had to do the studio the studio was very supportive of us when we said we'd like to try to do something to wrap up the story lines and he says swing for the fences you know you're not going to have to do this again.

[00:15:38] And so knowing that this was the last time we get to write this version of the characters you know definitely wait on us.

[00:15:44] Oh yeah, there were some animated conversations it was definitely some animated conversations all through the development of that thing because we were just like really we're going to do that okay.

[00:15:52] I mean again don't regret it I just don't I'm not eager to do something like that again anytime. So you're still recovering from this event.

[00:16:01] Yeah it was tough it was tough to write some of those things because I was like this is the last time I'm going to get it right you know the card. Just wait kill Wesley and then bring him back like.

[00:16:10] That was I don't think we didn't consciously set to do that in every book you know all three books that just worked out. And it was really crazy is you know just just.

[00:16:21] The idea that Wesley was a traveler that could pop in and pop out had was something that we had planned to do books years ago. Going all the way back to like cold equations and a few other books then hinted at that ability of Wesley's.

[00:16:34] And so when we were doing the code of thing we decided to lean into that idea and so I had in this you know I had just been watching doctor who.

[00:16:42] Catching up on the doctor and I just fallen in love with the war doctor John Hertz incarnation of the doctor. And he's very he's if you're not familiar with the continuity of that show he's the unnamed doctor that fought the time war against the dollars.

[00:16:56] And he's not even recognized among the main lineup at this point in time and so he's like that grizzled soldier who get all the dirty work and all the heart and you know he's like. Basically sacrifice himself and he's the unknown hero right.

[00:17:09] And so that so I had an image in my head of you know of what of old Wesley we in fact we were calling him old man Wesley in the in the outlines early in our early going in our notes.

[00:17:19] You know going off the Logan the old man Logan comic idea. And so we thought you know okay we're going to use different incarnations and different ages of him throughout the throughout the storyline.

[00:17:28] And then we came up with our storyline for the divisions to be the time eaters destroying all these timelines and feeding off that energy you know and so yeah it was a it was a.

[00:17:39] It was a lot of we had a lot of emails and Skype sessions and whatever before we even wrote the first outline.

[00:17:46] Are we we went to the corner our corners of the world down and then we you know we looked over each other's work and we looked over each is manuscript and there was two people doing the copy at it's improved readers and the editors.

[00:17:55] And we still made mistakes that's what you know is as on can is like we still made bone heads mistakes I'm just like that's writing.

[00:18:02] It's it happens that was funny because I was going to say that code did have that time you why me doctor who fill as I was reading it I'm a hoobian I know you aren't to and so I that's where I kind of really enjoyed it because you just didn't you couldn't anticipate where you were going to go.

[00:18:20] What's the story. Well we're exciting for the reader. And we talked about it we talked about you know killing off certain characters and you know we knew this is going to be a blood bath you know at some point.

[00:18:31] And we knew that we had to like really proverbially speaking or you know figuratively speaking points the reader in the mouth early on and make it real.

[00:18:40] And so that's why we did what we did in the first book, you know we decided we're going to be hard out with the whole Beverly Wesley dying part I was like I can't. I know and then I bring it right back to me.

[00:18:52] Yeah, and so you know we knew we had to raise the stakes really you know quickly in the book and then you know and then people were mad at me when they read the first book in the second book hadn't come out yet and I'm just like you know if you think this was bad.

[00:19:05] Way to wake it to book too and then you know if you think that's bad. Dave is in the middle of all Dave is in the on deck circle and he is swinging and so.

[00:19:14] I mean, not and it just was not a gleeful thing it was just like wow you guys you have no idea what we're you know and even paramount was was they didn't give us any sort of notes about you know scaling it back or toning it down or or making it a happy or ending they were in our corner of the entire time.

[00:19:31] And again it was you know it's a it was a unique opportunity because this is not like. Cann't version of the characters now and so once we were freed from that because up into that point we have been treating it.

[00:19:43] Like these are the canning characters that that that that that they keep going after nemesis. You know in our hearts these this is this is the Star Trek cannon you know because we had no idea they were going to bring back any of these people.

[00:19:55] I mean we went for years without any kind of idea that they would do this.

[00:19:59] So we were given a tremendous amount of latitude and support from the folks at paramount and which was you know let us do all these you know things like promoting characters and marrying characters and moving them off to other adventures and other ships and.

[00:20:12] Getting you know having kids and all that kind of things that they would never let us do when the show was in production or the films were in production.

[00:20:19] So you know when it came time you know we had to kind of sit back on our haggies little bingo man all this is going away and there's two ways to look at it.

[00:20:28] We can either just pretend it never happened or we can make a count for something or try you know try to come off making a count for something and so that's what we did. Yeah now I got your book. Where in salt and you wrote.

[00:20:41] See if I could do this. I don't know if I can read it. I'm saying everything all hail the war. Yeah, please explain.

[00:20:50] So we had a private chat being going on Twitter or the service formerly known as Twitter and so we got a private message loop between the three of us and Jim Swallow is the one that came up with the name.

[00:21:04] We're in Hope Death Cannon and so that became the title of our message group and then at some point I got the idea to we should make t-shirts you know band shirts.

[00:21:14] We're going to make us our metal death metal futuristic band. So I you know I quickly put together a logo for us for warmhold death cannon and Dave created the concert tour list on the back of the shirt with all the planets that get all the locations that get visited in three books and.

[00:21:32] So we got permission from paramount to to create a very small number of these t-shirts. So that we could have one for ourselves and one for the people who helped us realize the trilogy. It's like the folks at the folks at Simon and Schuster.

[00:21:45] I know a few other individuals who were huge help, you know. So yeah, if people keep asking us if they can buy the shirt and I have to break their heart. I'm like, you know, I'm we're not allowed to sell it.

[00:21:54] We're allowed to make a limited number of shirts without a track to you. I. Yeah, exactly. So we had but you know last year was the first time that all of us had been together.

[00:22:05] In years, but also since the trilogy had come out. So Dave's Jim and I were at shorely blast year with Scott Pearson who's our copy editor and the four of us got a got a reunion photo.

[00:22:14] We call that our one and only reunion tour one and only Scott one and only green to her. So we really get a picture of it. Oh nice. But all of us were in the shirts.

[00:22:24] That's I don't think I saw that photo was it on the show. I'll find it. It's I've got it somewhere. I would love to see that now when I met you in Salt Lake, I gust on how well you guys wrote.

[00:22:35] Fair for Lake Crusher and you know, especially in in your books as well.

[00:22:40] It was stuff that the fans wanted to see on TV that we just did really get so was that your inspiration with writing the character like is that how you thought barely should have been shown on screen or. I was I had been writing other books.

[00:22:56] I like the original series books and in the Vanguard books and a couple of things. So I wasn't really involved in the next gen post movie continuity, but they asked me to participate in this for book series called the Typhoon Pack.

[00:23:11] And so I was going to write the next generation book that that cat this four book sequence. And it was all and because of other things that had been happening in the books, you know, like they married,

[00:23:21] they're really in the card. I got married and they had a kid or they were going to have a kid at that point.

[00:23:26] And so Margaret Clark, our my editor at Simon and she's asked me if I was be interested in taking on the task of writing the first. The card is now a dad book.

[00:23:38] And the reason she did that is because I was a fairly new father at the time. And she thought that I could channel a lot of that angst and fatigue and daddy stuff into the book. Which she was writing, it actually did help.

[00:23:54] And so I you know, I had never given it a lot of thought about that. But once I had that you know, and I was spared the, I was spared the trauma of having to name the kid or show a birth scene.

[00:24:08] And she asked me not to do that. She said, just set it like a year after all of that so that you know, you can avoid all the sleepless nights and birdie diapers or whatever or most of it anyway. And so I said okay, that's fine.

[00:24:20] And so I did that thinking it would be a one and then they sent me back to my corner to write original series books or whatever. And then somehow I ended up being like the next generation writer from that point forward.

[00:24:35] And it was a political book. I was that's what I remember was a political book. So there was a lot of you know, a lot of stuff like that, which is not my favorite thing to write but I all do it.

[00:24:44] And so I set up all these questions about the endoriance reproductive crisis and the card in Beverly as new parents and I basically just wrote Beverly and John Luke the way my wife and I were at that age when we were having our kids, you know, it's like this is the same kind of, you know, your tired, your angry, your snippy.

[00:25:02] You know, there's there's there's there's you know, there's peace soup on my pants like when I go to work that kind of thing. Yeah.

[00:25:08] And so I had I kind of got thrown into this mix and like well, I don't recognize happy characters, you know, because they've replaced certain characters with new newly created characters just for the books like to us a chin, you know.

[00:25:19] Who ended up being one of my very favorite characters to write for? I just loved the dynamic between her and the card. Yeah.

[00:25:27] And I quickly became enamored with the idea of if you are, if you are a follower of the NCIS television series, she, Teresa Chen is Abby Shuto to the cards, Jeff Ro Gibbs, we wrote Jeff Ro Gibbs. Okay.

[00:25:40] So it's like so he tolerates her more so than he might do from somebody else and I love the fact that I could use Teresa Chen to look at the familiar characters through a new set of eyes and show her.

[00:25:54] So her responses as these seasoned people that we've, you know, we've watched and we've read them react to all the form of crises. So we have a general idea of how they're going to react, you know, to a given situation.

[00:26:06] We basically know how the cards first impulses during facing me unknown, but it's different when it's being observed through another party who's not familiar with them or not familiar with how they reacted. They don't have that longevity of familiarity with with with their captain or whatever.

[00:26:22] And so that was fun. It opened up a lot of open up a lot of opportunities for me to explore, pick hard, and the other known characters in a way that I couldn't do before.

[00:26:31] Because I had official characters that were part of the crew now that I could use as a point of view, you know, and dig into the people that we already know and not make it feel like, you know, something you've read a hundred times. Hopefully if I did it right.

[00:26:45] Well, I think you did it right. I mean, I mean, it's weird because they gave me this political thing and I was like, okay, and then I went away and I went to another, wrote a couple other books and they brought me back for another mini series called The Fall.

[00:26:58] And this was the five book arc that was going to cross over DS9 and Voyager elements in next gen, and they want to be to write the fifth book in that sequence, which was also a next generation book primarily.

[00:27:08] And I'm like, wait a minute, it's another political thing with a lot of the same questions that I asked in the first book that I did like four years ago.

[00:27:14] And so and I said, all right, but I'm not the political stuff is not my favorite part of Star Trek.

[00:27:21] I would really like to set this up so that they can be explorers again, you know, let's do it. Can I can I do that? Can I set them up so that their next adventure whoever writes it gets to go out and do a, you know, let's explore strange new worlds kind of thing.

[00:27:35] Yeah. And so I did that and I, and I left it as, you know, open and it as possible because I had no idea who the next writer might be. I didn't have there was no assumption that I would write the next one.

[00:27:46] I just figured they would, they would send me off to write something else. You know, because again I was writing original series in a couple of other things at the same.

[00:27:54] I was just figured somebody else would be somebody else's one in the, turning it in the saddle, you know, and I'd circle back sometime down the road.

[00:28:00] Low and behold, the first person to get a next generation book after the fall was me. And so I'm like, oh, well, well, I would have done things differently if I knew I was going to be the guy.

[00:28:09] And so that became Armageddon Zero, the first book that I wrote where they're exploring again. And then all of a sudden I'm writing all the next generation books are most of them, you know, I'm like, oh, I've said there's like three or four more coming my way.

[00:28:24] There was a lot of T and G on your list is I was going down.

[00:28:28] Yeah, I did not plan that and it didn't, I never had the expectation because up into that point, there wasn't one person writing next generation books. There were multiple authors doing next generation books.

[00:28:38] And so I just assumed that, you know, I was one person who would step in to a book step out and the next person would take it and off we go.

[00:28:44] I had no clue that I would end up being, you know, the however many I ended up writing three or four more.

[00:28:51] And then helping cap it off. So it was fun, but I got to have more fun with the characters because now with every book I could, you know, have a little bit more fun with certain characters.

[00:29:01] And we still didn't get to everybody. It's amazing that we still didn't get to everybody, just but that's, you know, I don't know that the people who buy Star Trek novels want to read about

[00:29:11] Fakan officer that they don't know from the television shows or they want to write, they want some familiarity and they'll indulge us for a little while, you know, but not to the exclusion of their favorite characters. So it's definitely a balancing act when you're writing time.

[00:29:27] And you know, I think that's what I've learned, you know, talking to you over this last year. And I think that's what helped with all of all the books that you written.

[00:29:41] You have this passion, especially for the next, you know, these characters that we all know and love.

[00:29:46] And you know, I feel that love and passion for these characters. Well, I listen to audible because I'm going to listen to it work and I'm just hearing it and I'm all like, I get it.

[00:29:58] Like I totally get it, especially as a new fan. It was like so exciting to hear these stories, especially in a totally different way than what I was watching, you know, episodic television, which has its, has its problems.

[00:30:12] But of course, that comes into our topic, I'll mark your here, your new book, which is playable truths and it's set in the TNG DS9 era.

[00:30:24] And I loved how you filled in the holes like how riker one in Dovo at corks bar with the vouchers or just the fact that you brought up the PTSD with a card and go Madrid.

[00:30:38] I love love, chaining command part two. Patrick Stewart and David Warner, amazing loved those seeds, but then there was nothing after that it was just. Okay back to episodic television, you know, and so I really, really loved how you put that into your story.

[00:31:00] So how did this whole idea come about?

[00:31:04] So this is the first time that I've revisited, you know, next gen since Dakota trilogy. And so they specifically asked me to write a next generation novel that was set during the television series, which is something that I had not previously done.

[00:31:20] The only time I'd ever done anything TNG TV related was a short story that came for an anthology that came out years ago.

[00:31:26] And so this would be my first, a time doing this, but I mean, I've done, you know, I've done similar type stories for the original series, so I didn't think it would be too difficult. It's just a matter of finding, you know, a spot that's interesting.

[00:31:38] And then they up the anti by asking me to also make it across over with DS9.

[00:31:43] And I said, well, that narrows this scope a little bit as far as where I can set it because there's only about a year and a half give or take, you know, a season and a half give or take of where those two shows overlap.

[00:31:57] And, you know, because of the DS9 premiered about the midway point of season six of next gen and, you know, TNG concluded the following season. And then there's a gap between it and the movie or the first movie.

[00:32:10] And so I'm like, okay, well that narrows this scope a little bit. You know, now I've got to set it during this time frame and wait a minute, it worked as a no anybody on the station because there's a whole two hour episode devoted to him being introduced to the.

[00:32:22] When he comes on a DS9 during the fourth year. I mean, he might there's there's room for there's room for doubt that he may have met a couple of people but it seems like he definitely didn't know certain individuals particularly most of the starfleet people.

[00:32:34] And so I'm like, okay, well, the easiest thing to do with me when you know, I could set it before the starfleet people come, you know, I started thinking about that.

[00:32:42] Instead of before the DS9 folks show that, you know, like Cisco and company show up. I'm like, well, that's still a pretty narrow gap because the, you know, there's the car dashing occupation that's that I have to do with.

[00:32:51] And then I realized there's, you know, the gap between chain of command and the premier of DS9 is really not that long internally like the internal trek timeline there's not a lot of room.

[00:33:03] And I thought wouldn't it be interesting if the card was somehow pulled into the aftermath of the car dashing occupation and having to deal with car dashings while still traumatized from what happened to him in chain of command.

[00:33:15] And so I pitched that idea and, you know, just as the A plot and my editor was like, okay, go with that.

[00:33:21] And I said, but this also for me, small opportunities I get to play with, you know, while Brian decided to make the switch from the enterprise to DS9. Yeah. How did he convince his wife to go along with that idea?

[00:33:33] And, you know, and I thought it'd be fun to show, you know, to be able to pair up certain next-gen characters and DS9 characters like for some reason the idea of crusher and, and cure a teaming up to do something was something that happened really quickly.

[00:33:47] I wrote that down and then I thought I would throw cake out into the mix because, you know, I know she, you know, she didn't really get used. I think to her full potential on the show.

[00:33:57] So I was like looking for a way to give her a spotlight before that happens. And then, uh, it's literally only one scene between Beverly and Kaco and the entire next generation so what I'm saying right? I was like, finally cake in question to get.

[00:34:11] Guys, it's just really coming into the episode is being what they are, you know, it's like, and she was a recurring character. She wasn't even part of the main cast. And, you know, for that matter, neither was was a Brian. A Brian is a recurring connection.

[00:34:21] And so, you know, and I thought, well, there's a, there's a plausible way that he would decide to make that transfer. But let's let's have some fun with it. And then, of course, there was, you know, what's, what's Garrick doing at this point in time?

[00:34:34] And, you know, what's Quark doing at this point in time? And I'm like, well, I don't have to start fleet people from the S-time. But I certainly have the, the non-star fleet folks that I can play with. And so that opened up the idea of, oh, that's right.

[00:34:44] That's, there's a story about Riker and the Davo thing. So I can throw that in there somewhere and, um, you know, you caught in Garrick and, you know,

[00:34:52] and then, uh, I want to spoil the book too much, but, you know, once other Kardashian characters start showing up in the pages of the book. I thought, well, there's opportunities between, you know, these characters to have their moments.

[00:35:02] And, uh, of course, Odo is there and he's not happy with Garrick and all that sort of thing. So it was kind of fun to partner them and put the next gen people into the DS9 environment and let them work away from their comfort zones a little bit,

[00:35:14] uh, particularly with the technical issues that LaForge and the group deal with, or with the course of the book. And then, of course, I needed something, need something interesting for Worf to do away from all of that.

[00:35:27] Because he doesn't know anybody. And so my original idea was I was going to have the prison plan at story on Bayjor.

[00:35:33] But it didn't make any sense that they could be undetected, you know, so I saw that quickly went away and I came up with the other planet idea.

[00:35:40] And I'm like, well, now I've got a reason to send, you know, at least some of the enterprise crew characters to this other problem. So that began the whole, you know, there's a prisoner on the planet who knows Rowe and gets a message out and then, you know,

[00:35:52] the enterprise goes and deals with that situation. So I was able to definitely hopefully, you know, somewhat definitely, side step, the whole Worf doesn't know anybody can undrum.

[00:36:01] Well, I think you did a great job. And I love that you did add Rowe into it because originally Rowe was supposed to be part of DS9. Yeah, yeah, that's right. Yeah, that's right. So it was a nice little.

[00:36:13] In hindsight, I probably wish I could have involved her a little bit more, but, um, I, they asked me to scale back, you know, the little bit on the ending, like I didn't want they didn't want to big fire fight at the end with all of our guys.

[00:36:24] And so I said, well, I need to have some kind of overthrow of the prison camp or doesn't make any sense. So, um, and I'm a big fan of movies like, you know, Stolex 17, the greatest scape, Bridget over the river choir.

[00:36:37] So I'd love the idea of the prison planet and the, and the destructed leads that are going on there behind closed doors. So, um, I love a good prison break. Now, I, when I read chapter six, which is the, the Crusher scene is like,

[00:36:51] all of them having their little one-on-one that we only have like five times in the entire series. I remember tweeting and chatting, chapter six tagged you crying emoji.

[00:37:01] Um, I greatly appreciate it, but what I did like is how you paste it because even at the end, you know, she still, they, they're not really around each other because they're doing their different things.

[00:37:13] But she's all like, oh, I hope he's okay, you know, glad Diana's with them kind of thing. And that felt very Beverly, you know, to, to think that, to think of Jean Luke during that time because it was a tough time for him.

[00:37:27] It was, I think, I remember, I remember writing the outline and I remember that. I think my, my first version of that story was it would have been a choice seen with him like leading up to what happens on the station, right?

[00:37:40] And I thought, well, this is a great moment for Crusher to do something like this before going off on her own subplot.

[00:37:46] So, I, I reworked that and, um, I'm glad I did because it gave me a chance to kind of revisit that dynamic that I used to like doing in the other books before Coda, you know,

[00:37:55] with people that we, you know, with Coda, I mean, I couldn't do the same things with, you know, with their relationship that that I could go to Coda.

[00:38:02] But we could hint at, you know, what's to come as far as, you know, their eventual, how the screen treats them.

[00:38:09] And, but it was, and it was nice to get in that vibe for a little bit to remain, you know, kind of like somewhat close to what we used to do back in the next gen books before Coda.

[00:38:19] And then the, the other opportunity that the book presented was, you know, we turned off the, the lit verse as fans call it. And, you know, but we had all these characters that we created across all these different ships and careers and books.

[00:38:33] And I'm like wouldn't it be fun to have certain characters pop up in different, in a different way? Like so that's why Dr. Tropp, you know, is the, is the CMO of the other ship in the book.

[00:38:44] And I brought him back from, and you know, you see like the guys who went off to be Starfleet Corps of Engineers are in the, come with the later scenes.

[00:38:52] And, you know, I think all the different chief engineers or something at the enterprise at one point, for the first season, you know, as I could be fun to do that.

[00:39:00] I mean, I've always, even when we, we knew we were turning off the lights with the lit verse, it's like, yeah, but we got all these cool characters in the beginning, shame to waste them.

[00:39:08] But, you know, it's not gonna be a way to bring in, you know, not all of them. But, you know, certain ones from time to time, sparingly, we might be able to get away with it and not feel like we're, we're overdoing it.

[00:39:17] I mean, Jim Swalo started that by having different versions of like Christine Vale and his, the Cardinal, you know, set on the Titan and so we'd like to, yeah, that's a good idea of why not. Well, you know, we can do that.

[00:39:26] You know, plus we've already spent all this time developing these characters, why create other ones from scratch. So, exactly exactly. And the one thing about, because, you know, my favorite episodes are pretty much all Beverly heavy rights.

[00:39:37] Like attached and Genesis, you know, like that. But I love cheating command just because of, you know what I said earlier, but there was that one scene where

[00:39:46] Galma Dred was gonna let him go, whether he mentioned all, he'll have to interrogate the human female and that's where the card stops.

[00:39:54] He's like, who are you talking about, right? And it's a very powerful scene in the hands of Stame because he's not sure if he has Beverly.

[00:40:02] And so I liked how it kind of connects because we don't know just from the show if he ever told her if she ever knew that, but then for you to have Beverly just thinking of him and worrying about him, but knowing he's okay.

[00:40:15] I felt that was a good connection between the two between the show and what you wrote. Yeah, thank you. I mean, thank you. I don't think it's a stretch because even as, even as early as the second episode of NextGen, there's an obvious attraction between the characters.

[00:40:31] You know, the pilot is kind of weird in that regard because they're so cold towards each other. You know, and I'm just, and by the second episode, you know, by the first regular hour episode, that's gone.

[00:40:44] You know, and it's just, it's, you know, that's one of the things that I don't really like about the pilot whenever I rewatch the pilot and I see how those two interact in the scenes they have together. It just feels so forced and wrong.

[00:40:55] You know, I get, I mean, I understand some initial awkwardness because they probably haven't seen each other in a quiet awhile, but it's like, come on.

[00:41:03] You know, they were best friends and all that. You know, he was married to, you know, she was married to his best friend and all that.

[00:41:08] So there's, you know, and she's a doctor. So empathy is second nature, just like, come on, give the dude a break, you know, and then it's just, but I mean, it was weird because, you know, within the, I think was it,

[00:41:21] well, the first episode is to make it now where they get the, you know, the lower-do conditions. And like, so obviously there's an attraction there that, that, that, that, you know, that this, that this thing exploited.

[00:41:31] So it's like being drunk just, you know, let's ask your interview that you keep lockdown, you know?

[00:41:37] So yeah, so I just, I'm always subscribed to the idea that they always had mutual feelings for each other even if it was unrequited or not quite so serious or a Picard thought more of it than she did,

[00:41:48] you know, or whatever or vice versa. But there was always that. So I always lean, I lean into that scene with that in mind, thinking, I'm safe. This is safe territory for me. I'm not going out.

[00:42:00] Yeah, exactly. Now of course, Beverly Crusher is making comeback not only being on Picard and very small tracks, which is very hard to talk about, but, you know, she at least did it, but also she did prodigy.

[00:42:12] Is there anything about this current Beverly we're seeing on screen that you would love to write about? Oh, yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's that, that, that, that, I don't know what I would do with the characters at that point in their lives, you know, after Picard season three.

[00:42:25] I don't know what I would do. It's hard to say. But I would definitely love to see it.

[00:42:30] It's a long happened in 20 years. A lot of happened in 20 years and not all of it makes sense. Like, you know, I remember wrestling with the timeline of it all when we were reading the scripts and I was just like, how old is this guy?

[00:42:40] Because I don't know how young is this kid. You know, because the dude on state, the screen does not look like the kid that has to be this age in this script.

[00:42:48] And so it was interesting and I'm like, there's a lot that went on and you know, the timeline is a little mushy. You have to kind of, you know, hand wave a little things here and there to make it a little bit.

[00:42:59] A little bit. I'm very much into the timelines. Like, I pay attention to dates and yet Jack.

[00:43:04] I'll argue about dates from. We are, I mean, every time I get a new script of like, wait a minute, the last script says this and now you're saying this and there's kids like 15 or whatever.

[00:43:14] And I'm just, I remember going back over it and trying to help it all make sense and it was, yeah, it was an interesting evolution watching that show of all was quite something. Right. That did you happen to see season two of.

[00:43:27] Yeah, I did. Yeah. It was great. I enjoyed it. I knew it was going to be good, you know, two years ago when I read the scripts. I just had to shut up about it for two years. No, I mean, it was so hard.

[00:43:40] It was hard. I mean, I knew when I read the first script for the first season, the first handful of scripts for the first season. So this is going to be one of the best things these guys this this script has done.

[00:43:49] It's a great on ramp. It's a great way to introduce younger kids to Star Trek. I mean, I know it's written as I was telling somebody other day. I said it's written with younger kids in mind, but it's not a kid's show.

[00:44:00] I mean, it's not it's not a little kid's show. It's like the plot is very dense, particularly in season two. There's a lot of moving parts in season two and it's I mean, I know a lot of grownups who can't keep all those ball straight.

[00:44:12] And you know, but I like that because it's, you know, it's written it's written in a way that's approachable for younger audience, but it doesn't talk down to him.

[00:44:19] It doesn't, it doesn't kind of send or patronize them. I love, I just love the storyline. I thought I was very intricate and just you know, and provide so many opportunities for things like when they brought in Wesley, I was like, are you kidding me?

[00:44:32] You know, really that's a great idea. Wesley comes into help with the timeline crisis. Great idea guys. I was funny because I was like, this is very code.

[00:44:43] Yeah, no, it was great. It was fun to watch it though and I love the way they took him in a different direction and I really, I really love the direction they took him in.

[00:44:51] It's just infectious to watch and listen to what we're eating, getting washed today, character. I'm just like, and I mean, I'm right.

[00:44:57] And I'm just scratching notes about what I might do with all of this information because you know now that the, now that the travelers and the people who gave us Gary seven are the same and they're connected.

[00:45:08] I'm just like, my brain is exploding with you know, I want to piss this idea that as a novel. I have thoughts about all of this, you know?

[00:45:16] Yeah, it was funny because when there was there's a scene and I believe it has to do with the original series episode. I want to say it was assignment birth. I'm an earth.

[00:45:28] And the, you know, because it's supposed to be like the 70s kind of office and everything. I was like, I don't know the original series very well, but I was like, that must be the episode with Terry Garron, the Black Cat.

[00:45:39] Yeah, it's exactly right. They recreated the office. They kind of gave it a little bit of an update, but it's the same office and like the opens up the computer. That's the computer thing. I recognize it. I was, you know, it was so.

[00:45:50] Oh, my brain is like, I have all these thoughts and I've been writing them down and trying to make sense of it. I was surprised Twitter didn't break because everyone was like, oh my gosh, did you see this?

[00:46:00] And then there's even people heard now watching it. Now our point in things out is like, I didn't even see it on my third or fourth or three watched.

[00:46:07] You know, I'm just like, there's a lot of Easter eggs made into that and there's stuff that I saw over the first time because a lot of it's visual. And so that kind of stuff is not inscript.

[00:46:16] And so, you know, if they decided to leave a visual gag hanging on the wall or something, you know, I don't know that that's going to be there. A lot of times I don't know what's there until I see the episode.

[00:46:25] So it's fun to watch it as a fan even with the inside knowledge. I knew how the story was going to unfold but that didn't mean I didn't enjoy watching it because it was a lot of fun to see them realize it.

[00:46:35] Yeah, like I said, that Wesley Dr who makes me, you know, Wesley Crusher time lord makes me want to write stuff. So I've been wanting a crossover between Dr who and Wesley like,

[00:46:50] that's how it became a fan. I was like, it could happen and then it just make a little joke in this 15th doctor. She was all like, oh, just like the anti matter from Star Trek he's like, we got to visit them one day.

[00:47:03] I was like right there right there. crossover like Colville, we're right now. They did do a comics. Do a comics crossover years ago with Matt Smith's dark. Yeah, and I had pitched.

[00:47:18] I had wanted to do one with Gary seven and either the third or the fourth doctor because there was a period during those two doctors where he has been exiled to earth by the time lords.

[00:47:29] And he could not travel on the target so he could not do any of that stuff. He was stuck on earth, you know, as an exile.

[00:47:36] And he's still got up to all sorts of adventures, you know, because he's working with the unit folks in the brigadier and all those guys.

[00:47:41] And so I thought wouldn't that be great to have Gary seven and one of those two versions of the doctor working together on a threat. You know, yeah. No, it would be so interesting, but you know, Wesley was very I said it was very 11th doctor.

[00:47:56] I thought he had a bit of that Matt Smith, but a little bit of David. And I did the interview with Aaron Wolke and he had mentioned, you know, there was definitely some doctor who inspiration in that so it just made me so excited.

[00:48:10] Especially I'm also river song fan. I mean, I think, I don't know, Wesley said no one like spoilers, I was like, River right there. You know, that was like timey-wimey. I'm like this is awesome. Like my worlds are colliding in the best way possible. Anyway, thoughts.

[00:48:32] Now I did get one fan question and this actually works perfectly because he wants to know so this is from Jay. He wants to know is your newest novel, Plyable Truth, considered part of canon or the novel still consider beta unless reference on screen.

[00:48:46] Yeah, none of the novels are canon. They are, I mean, they're, they're Star Trek does not subscribe to levels of canon like alpha beta and all that. They are either canon or they're not and in the case of Star Trek novels, they're not.

[00:49:00] That said, we are, you know, we endeavor to be consistent with the canon as we know what when we write the book. Right. And so it's as consistent and fits in as seamlessly as possible with the on screen canon that we are able to do.

[00:49:16] Obviously, you know, some of them a lot of them get overwritten or, you know, get the events are told in a different way when they finally do something similar.

[00:49:24] So no, none of the Star Trek novels are canon but you know that doesn't make them any I would hope it doesn't make them any less entertaining or fun to read.

[00:49:33] It's kind of like when I tell people, you know, the Titanic did not sink intact, it broke up and cannot ever be raised, but that doesn't make raise the Titanic any less of a thrilling adventures.

[00:49:47] And you know, and just like the war of the world cannot obviously happen because there are no martians that doesn't mean that's not a great story.

[00:49:53] You know, that's how I view Star Trek as and I guess another way of looking at it is the novels and the comics and the other expanded universe offerings are,

[00:50:02] you know, you could consider the actual on screen events of these characters as history and then the other stuff is historical fiction, you know.

[00:50:10] That's one way to address all the discrepancies and things between the different types of books and the different novels and whatnot and keep it all straight in your head.

[00:50:19] Is that you know, it's because they used to write, you know, they used to write a lot of dime novels and pulp fiction about historic figures all the time, you know, really the kid Elliotness. You know, these are the same in my brain it works the same way.

[00:50:30] So that helps me keep it all straight and keep it saying. Well, that was our red head alert and this one is a good one guys because like I said earlier, I sat down with Aaron Walky co executive producer and writer of Star Trek prodigy.

[00:50:48] We talked all things pressure in season two and it was a joy. This episode is going to drop next Friday which is my birthday.

[00:50:56] I 26 at 5 p.m. Pacific Standard Time. So meet me in the chat live and we will discuss all about what he has to say and also don't forget that you guys can like and subscribe this video and find me on Apple Spotify good pods any of your favorite audio podcasts apps.

[00:51:18] And by me a coffee by scanning that bar code on the top right and you could find pressure combo merch at teepublic and of course all this information is at pressure combo dot com. Well, you know what date and thank you so much for joining me tonight.

[00:51:35] You are a joy to talk with and I love talking Star Trek with you is and Beverly Crusher like. You have so many ideas and you have such love for it. It's just it's so great to be able to share that with you.

[00:51:49] Is there anything that you would like to plug or you know where people can find you. You can find me a date more dot com.

[00:51:57] That's my launching pad for all the other links to my social media platform, you know the Facebook and Twitter Instagram and all other stuff. My Amazon pages on there I think. I call up my little corner of internet banality.

[00:52:14] I'm not a huge blogger presence but I try to make it entertaining for the people who stop by.

[00:52:20] And as far as new stuff you know, then the new next generation novel plaval trees is out there in stores and of course the marvel book that Kevin and I wrote Captain America Steve Rogers declassified is also in stores.

[00:52:32] So okay I'm out in into June so check him out. I had to hunt for this. We only have like I feel like one bookstore left in Idaho which is like one barns and nobles. And I found this down by found it.

[00:52:45] You know if they don't have it on the shelf they'll order it for you so don't forget that. Yeah, because not on the shelf doesn't mean you're out of luck. They will happily order it for you to come pick up for their store.

[00:52:55] And then that what that usually means is they'll order another one to put on the shelf. You have expressed interest and they think maybe somebody else will.

[00:53:02] So there we go. Oh man I should have done that just been like I would have bought it and then come back like oh I can't find the book and then the order in. So there'll be more.

[00:53:12] Well again thank you Dayton for taking your time guys thanks for watching and I will see you next time live long and prosper. Pressure off.