Ep: 027 Star Trek: Picard S3 "One Year Later" Featuring Erin

[00:00:00] I think I'm saying that we struggle all our lives to answer it. But it's the struggle that is important. That's what helps us to define our place in the universe. This is Beverly, Dr. Beverly, Dr. Beverly Crusher. Honest. Forceful. Trusting. Brilliant. Strong. Adventurous. And this is Crusher Convo.

[00:00:29] Hey guys and welcome to Crusher Convo, where we are crushing the conversation one episode at a time. And I am so excited as we will be discussing Season 3 of Star Trek Picard one year later or one and a half year later.

[00:00:43] And in the guest seat today, I am welcoming back one of our favorite cosplayers and Bevhead. We have Erin. Hello Erin, how are you? Hello, Jessi. Thanks for having me as a guest. I'm really excited to be here. I always love seeing your photos.

[00:00:57] Now tell our audience though what your favorite cosplay is. Well, I would have to say my very favorite one is probably the Big Goodbye outfit from Season 1 of TNG.

[00:01:12] I've had a chance to wear it a couple times for Gates and it's been so wonderful just to see not only her reaction but you know other people who are in attendance of the event. And it's just, I mean just to have compliments for her.

[00:01:26] I mean there's nothing better than... There's nothing better? Absolutely. Now you just saw Gates recently right with your Big Goodbye cosplay. Yeah that's right. Motor City Comic Con. Nice. Yeah, I saw your photo.

[00:01:40] That purse, like literally like it's something that you could pull out of a TNG episode. Like how did you find that purse? I actually had to make it because I looked around everywhere they had nothing like it. So it was sort of a pandemic project actually.

[00:01:56] I was just, I've got some time to you know do things so I will actually watch the Big Goodbye a lot of times and pay very close attention and just you know I had to make the template for the you know oval shape and the handle cutouts. Yeah.

[00:02:11] I had a very nice friend with a wood shop who cut out the shapes for me and then I just had to... Tweet. And get the you know synthetic leather to cover it and actually build the pocket for the purse. So it's actually a functional purse.

[00:02:24] Oh, now does it have gum? Thankfully no one has tried to give me any. Usually when I try to pack it I'll put sunglasses in there and the gloves but I have not put any gum in there yet. Any gum yet?

[00:02:40] Okay just you know maybe a mint you know next time. The recent episode I did with Abby from First Flight Podcast we were talking about Beverly's outfits and the Big Goodbye was one of my choices.

[00:02:52] And so we made the little bit of a joke between the mint and the gum kind of thing. I know she was offered the gum but I'm sure she probably had some and just didn't know what it was right? The stuff things. Right.

[00:03:04] I know I'm curious like it must have just been peppermint at that time. Right I'm sure they didn't have 10 million flavors like we have now. Some of those flavors you know besides peppermint they had someone that weren't so great like you know black licorice. Ooh not going there.

[00:03:20] Nope that's giving me college PTSD with the Jaeger Meister. Just thinking about that.

[00:03:28] Oh exactly exactly well as I was just saying we are going to be discussing season three of Picard which was our return of Beverly Crusher and so when you first saw this scene because that was literally how it was going to be.

[00:03:41] Because that was literally how the season opened it was five over five minutes of Beverly Crusher and of course after this she's rushing and trying to get into warp and trying to stop the bad guy she gets shot there's this whole action sequence.

[00:03:53] What was your reaction when you first saw that.

[00:03:55] Oh it was it was absolutely incredible because after so much anticipation of oh Beverly is going to be in the season you know how long are they going to wait before she actually gets introduced and it's right at the beginning and you

[00:04:08] see the opening sequence and you see you know the various artifacts like Beverly's pearls and everything and just seeing that right away you just blown away and you're just like this is going to be a great season.

[00:04:23] I was so excited because I mean as everyone knows I'm new to the fandom I just started watching the show and I got spoiled because I just saw TNG and then I'm getting brand new material with Picard.

[00:04:36] So seeing her all of a sudden like you said you see the little ship which are IP Elios and then you see all her artifacts with the pearls and the flowers and so you're like okay that's the big goodbye that's cause and effect you see her masks

[00:04:51] which you know you can see in her quarters like in sub Rosa and you're seeing all this stuff Jack Crusher's bag you know his suitcase. And you're like okay this is great and then she just pops up and you're like yes bring it on let's do this.

[00:05:09] I am a weirdo when it comes to certain characters that I like I like my favorite characters getting injured and here's why.

[00:05:18] And it's because I know this sounds so weird but it's because the acting when someone is injured especially in a high 10 situation the acting is like up a couple of notches and so you're seeing amazing material.

[00:05:36] This is why I really love arsenal freedom as much as you know love you Jay as much as we make a joke about Picard's first and first aid skills.

[00:05:45] Gates did beautifully being injured right yes yes and so that's the kind of stuff that I long for like are they going to make it what's going to happen is this going to you know be a permanent problem.

[00:05:59] You know one of my favorite shows growing up was Zina and you know there was always situations where she was injured and she fought through.

[00:06:09] And those were high 10 situations where you were just watching you were glued to the TV right right so as you're seeing Beverly not only get injured but she's freaking fighting with a phaser and she's killing the bad guys and she's just being a badass and we're like this is the Beverly we all know and love.

[00:06:27] Now what did you think about the music choice because I really want to talk about the beginning of this song, which of course was. I don't want to set the world on fire by the ink spots.

[00:06:39] So what did you think of that when you first started hearing it. It's a little interesting if the introduction almost made me think about happy trails.

[00:06:51] It was yeah it seems a little unusual, although it's like is that something that's just public domain or you know I mean obviously he we were going for something you know romantic and something like that and you know we were thinking well you know.

[00:07:07] Picard loves archaeology older things maybe his taste music kind of drifts towards the older time periods as well.

[00:07:17] Well I mean Barry Dixon Hill right he was fascinated with those 1940s detective novels and that song was in the 50s and so it made sense and it was interesting when I heard that because I clocked a card that was kind of my my my idea of it.

[00:07:34] Now some of the lyrics of that song was in my heart I have one desire and that one is you know other will do. I've lost all ambition for worldly acclaim I just want to be the one you love.

[00:07:47] And with your admission that you feel the same, I'll have reached the goal I'm dreaming of and I'm all like that's a beautiful little love song for Picard to give. And of course as we're watching the episode.

[00:08:00] We do hear Picard playing an old song in his library at the Chateau it's a different song, but it has the same similar taste so you're kind of like. Oh, I wonder if he gave Beverly that first song.

[00:08:16] Well I think that second song that you're just referring to comes back again in the later episode I was thinking it was one Jack was recalling that memory of going to the gardens with his mom. It's funny you mentioned that.

[00:08:51] Perfect timing that was a great segue and it's we actually heard the song three times because it was in Picard's library.

[00:09:07] We hear it at the end of the episode when they go on the ship and he goes, it was a mix tape of songs that I gave her of instead of wine and roses.

[00:09:18] And then all of a sudden you hear this song playing in Jack's memory and he was like my mother adored the song. This song however is a little bit more sad.

[00:09:27] Yeah, he's like over you can't think of smiling now I'm sad and blue like there's a bunch of these different lyrics and you're like, I wonder if he played it when they broke up and one of those five times that we'll talk about in a little bit.

[00:09:45] I know I think part of the lyric says I can't stop praying you'll come back home. So I found that interesting that he was still playing that song even 20 plus years later, because that song reminded him of Beverly and that's what he was playing at the Chateau.

[00:10:02] So, and of course Jack said it was more of a memory passed from my father to my mother to me. You know, and I just thought that was great that they added these, these songs to represent the card and Beverly's love story that we never saw.

[00:10:19] And it's nice to see that the mix tape sort of had a revival in later years. Yes, I know it's still going strong. Right. I mean, I think we all kind of freaked out were like he made her a mix tape guys like. Oh my gosh.

[00:10:35] There is a third song that not many people know about and that was actually playing in no one scenario and 10 forward. So of course this wasn't really part of Picard's mix tape for Beverly.

[00:10:49] But I thought it was kind of interesting that it was playing while Picard's trying to eat his dinner in front of all those cadets. And it's called I can't break away from that girl by slam Allen.

[00:11:00] And there's just a couple of lyrics that I was able to get is when I see that girl I can't control myself. I should have left my feelings on the shelf, something about her I want more and more I get weak in my knees I want to drop to the floor.

[00:11:13] And I remember when it finally hit me what the song was I remember tweeting out. And I was like, well played, Terry well played and he liked to read. I was like, I see what you did there.

[00:11:28] Because of course that scene ended up being a whole thing about Jack and why he didn't want to see his father because he did try to see his father and he was disappointed so.

[00:11:37] But yeah, was there anything though that you feel like was missing? I mean we got these snippets where it was like love story and their songs and stuff. But did was there something about their story that you wish you saw?

[00:11:48] Well part of it just there was just a little bit at the end one, you know, of course they're returning from the board cube once, you know, it's explodes and everyone's back safe.

[00:11:59] And of course, definitely totally expected that the first hug from Beverly would be for Jack. I mean absolutely no doubt there.

[00:12:05] But you'd think that they're just missing that there wasn't at least a hug of or some sort of, you know show of affection for Jean-Luc because you know the last time they saw each other they thought it perhaps might be the last time that they saw each other.

[00:12:20] And you know and he you know he promised you know he'll bring him back he'll bring him back you know and it's just you know you're everyone's coming back you know you've saved the universe you know big euphoria it's like not not even just a little you know hug to say I'm glad you're still alive.

[00:12:35] You know you brought our son back you know it just seems like something that was missing and you know maybe it was not there because it would have messed up the you know rhythm of the scene or something like that but it just it just felt wasn't quite complete you know what I mean.

[00:12:50] A disconnect. Right. And we did see there was a behind the scene footage where we did see Picard holding Beverly's hand, but it wasn't in the shot.

[00:13:02] Right so it was like they must have been holding hands or touched in some case but it was cut you know weirdly that was kind of one of the things that I was a little slightly disappointed was how it was edited.

[00:13:17] Because you can kind of see different shots that they kind of pasted together. Yeah, so I think that's why there was kind of this, you know this disconnect as you know with with these scenes because like oh I feel like this should have happened you know and it didn't and like oh well it did but they cut it out.

[00:13:35] And you can see like after you know Jack and Beverly released their hug and then you know it was kind of like a three way hug with you know Jack in the middle sort of symbolism I could see the symbol is above you know Jack bringing the two of them together and that was great.

[00:13:49] But it did still feel like that you know there wasn't a you know real release as far as you know between you know John Luke and Beverly as far. A reunion. Right. Right yeah. I mean she just tried to kill them. You know, yeah.

[00:14:06] It's like, thankfully you're still alive you're still alive you know a little bit more of an emotional reunion than what we got but you know, but we did have some good moments which actually that's what we're going to go into next we got our favorite moments that we decided to pick out.

[00:14:24] So I'm going to go ahead and play mine which mine was the return of role Aaron and I know a lot of people were kind of like, oh I really wish they didn't bring her back I kind of wish this had happened.

[00:14:40] I honestly hated capital H how they ended her story on TNG.

[00:14:46] I thought it was the stupidest thing about her leaving the enterprise for the Maki, it just seems so abrupt I know she always felt like an outcast and that was always her struggle, but she did have a close relationship with the car.

[00:14:59] There was that father daughter relationship there. So for her to just be like, peace out. I thought it was dumb. I was what I saw it for the first time I was like that's it. That's how they ended the character after all of this.

[00:15:13] They just had her leave. And so I understand why Terry fought so hard to get Michelle back to play this role.

[00:15:23] I think that was the redemption for her character because I do not believe that her character ended correctly in TNG and clearly Terry didn't either and this was a fantastic moment.

[00:15:35] Seeing her coming down the corridor, I woke up at 1am to watch these episodes and seeing her come down I was like, there was a gasp. I was so excited.

[00:15:46] The only thing that I just didn't like was that there wasn't really a big reunion with the other characters. I get it. There was a timing issue. There's only 10 episodes. They're really trying to showcase the relationship she had with Picard, but like she had a relationship with Riker.

[00:16:04] They had what two seconds Beverly and her they had somewhat of a nice friendship growing at the end. Didn't even see each other. I know Jordy wasn't there yet.

[00:16:15] So of course they're almost dying when they were phased out was interesting, but I was just so happy that they brought her back. What was your reaction when you saw Roe just pop up on screen? Yeah, it was really nice to see her come back.

[00:16:34] When you were talking about her abrupt departure, I know I'd heard at some point in time that they were possibly thinking of having her be involved in DS9. And I wonder if they were suddenly getting rid of her character because she said she didn't want to do that.

[00:16:50] That part, it's anyone's guess. Right. Yeah, there's sometimes when characters just disappear and it's like they go away forever. You never know what happened to them. Sometimes in this case something happens to them and you're like, I wish that never happened to them.

[00:17:08] Couldn't you just have her kind of ride off into the sunset with the McKee and you never hear what happens to her? Yeah. And you're right. It was supposed to be Roe Lahren on DS9, but she didn't want to do it. That's why we got Kira Narisse.

[00:17:24] But as I was just talking on Twitter where people were, I guess it was the anniversary of tears of the prophets where Jedzie dies and everyone's all like, man, I wish they didn't care all for character. And there's the pros and cons of why they did it fine.

[00:17:41] But yeah, Jedzie was an awesome character and it sucked that they just killed her off. They could have done it in my opinion. They could have done it a little differently. And I feel like they could have also done Michelle's exit a little bit better.

[00:17:55] And again, we don't know what happened behind the scenes. Like you said, this should have just been their lay of like, well, she wants out so fine. Just have her do this, you know? But it still just hurts as a fan.

[00:18:08] You're watching this character that you really like and they don't treat them correctly. You know what I mean? So yeah, this scene was very undignified. Just a little bit, right? Now let's head up into your favorite moment. A lot's happened in 20 years.

[00:18:23] So I mean, I agree this scene was awesome. But why did you pick this moment? Well, like, you know, I've, I have been a fan of Beverly's for a very, very long time since I was 11 years old actually.

[00:18:37] And, you know, back in those days, you know, that you'd come across other fans of Star Trek and they're like, oh, who's your favorite character? And I'd be like, Dr. Kressher and like either there'd be a couple of different reactions.

[00:18:48] One would be like, oh, or someone else would be like, really? Well, she doesn't really do anything. It's like, well, guess she does if you actually pay attention. Correct. Yeah. So much if you really, really look.

[00:19:05] And this was actually sort of, you know, see, you know, I mean, she's always, you know, at various moments, demonstrated the skill with weaponry. And this is the time when it's just right in front of your face that, you know, hey, she's got some mad skills people.

[00:19:23] And it's true a lot's happened in 20 years. She had to be doing a bunch of stuff, which I would love to see someone write a book. David Mack Dayton Ward.

[00:19:33] I don't care like someone read a book on Beverly's 20 years because I would love to know what she's gone through. Or even like they have those biographies that they wrote of all the captains. Let's let's have them because the Beverly early years would be so great to have.

[00:19:50] That is true. I mean, yeah, we don't know much about her early years either as I had talked about this with Josh when we were doing our my little Star Wars crossover. I had mentioned that a lot of Beverly's origins were very Star Wars.

[00:20:07] You know, her being born on the moon and losing her parents and you know, surviving planetary disasters and just all this stuff.

[00:20:15] And it made her into the person that she was, you know, today but even recording the message for Jean-Luc was almost like the help me Obi Wan Kenobi you're my only hope. Exactly. Oh, absolutely. Oh man, I wish I had mentioned that gosh darn it.

[00:20:32] I'm going to redo the episode now. I it's but it's true. Like she was reaching out and she's all like, you're literally the only one I could trust. That's what she told him in sick bay.

[00:20:43] And yeah, it was just very interesting that we we only know so very little about Beverly's background. And now we know very little about why she was gone or where she had been for the last 20 years.

[00:20:56] But in your scene that you picked was like, she's gone through a lot and she was flipping phasers and torpedoes and all this crazy stuff. Well, yeah.

[00:21:06] And even like in that opening scene that we were just discussing a short time ago when you know the camera goes to her and you see her face, you know, it's one thing where you can say, yes, this is you know I've been waiting for this for so long, you know, this is the character I love.

[00:21:22] And then you look at her face and it's like, oh no, she's really gone through some shit in here. So yeah, so you're you know very happy but sad at the same time.

[00:21:31] Yeah, which that brings me up into the episode of Dominion where and there was that deleted scene where she's like I've seen them the violence that they did to try and get Jack.

[00:21:45] I've seen so much she's like, my yes, I think I'm losing my compass, which was huge for Beverly to say, right.

[00:21:54] Like, she always this moral compass she always was a straight and narrow on the fact that she had gone through so much just to try to protect Jack even just in the last few months.

[00:22:03] She was starting to be like, I'm going to kill this woman like I'm going to set up a phaser, and we're going to just kill her, and I'm going to be fine with it. She's did a Benjamin Cisco of like, I could live with it. Right.

[00:22:15] Because her glass of usually when she's like facing adversity and everything you know she's usually just you know keeping her cool she's staying focused on this is what we need to do and I'm gonna but in there's definitely you know she's saying like you know, I don't know if I can keep this together this time.

[00:22:31] This is yeah, I'm having a hard time with this. And Picard made a good point where he's like, have we changed so much that we are willing to sacrifice everything that we believed in. Right.

[00:22:46] Because they both have gone through a lot even with Picard going through everything that he did with the Robin live relocation and then him, you know, being forced into retirement and all that stuff.

[00:22:56] They got through some stuff. And here he is with the one person that he really does trust he trusts everything to her. And he's like, we're both now two broken people are we willing to really just kill her because we're just done and she's like yeah and he's like, okay.

[00:23:13] The one time when they don't seem to be able to hit their target. Well, you know it's funny because they're showing the phasers hitting right. Right.

[00:23:24] You could tell he's 98 years old or whatever it was. He's just all over the place but she was shooting. She was hitting her mark but for some reason this was kind of a plot hole.

[00:23:36] You have to hit him at a certain angle in order for them to disintegrate versus not I don't know. Right. It's like that. Okay, John Luke back to the firing range and it's like, okay, how can we how can we hit them by herself at that point right.

[00:23:51] We're just going to point that out because she did kill them in the very first episode but I guess you have to shoot them at a certain point right is like straight down wasn't right.

[00:24:01] I guess I don't know. It was kind of interesting but yeah, I think for those characters to see them be different and just and I love that I love seeing these actors come back to these previous roles because not only has their character has changed

[00:24:22] but the actor has changed as well. They're more seasoned. They're definitely not the same actor that they were 37 years ago with these characters and so they can put in more gravitas into these scenes and definitely show that they had gone through a lot.

[00:24:40] For instance, Jonathan Frakes. Wonderful. I was blown away with him as Riker. I think he did fabulous. I just loved everything that he did right even between him getting mad at Picard and all this stuff and even just the one on ones with Beverly.

[00:25:03] It was really great to see these actors. I mean, LeVar with Jordy. That was not the same Jordy we saw in G, right?

[00:25:12] Absolutely. Right and parenthood has definitely changed him. Exactly, exactly but even Worf like he's doing the meditation and he's being all different and you could just see though that these actors really took a step above and beyond with these characters

[00:25:30] and that's what made for me. That's what made Season 3 so special.

[00:25:35] And it was it was nice because it was the return to the ensemble formula where everyone had a part in the story as opposed to like the movies that had gone to sort of more of the action hero type setting where it was mostly Picard and data focused

[00:25:53] and it really lost something because when you go back and it's like, well, let's see where is Doctor C in this movie? And there's like a this scene and this scene and that's it. Literally 16s and generations. But those six.

[00:26:07] Yeah, and the reason why the well I mean there's other reasons of course but to me one of the reasons why the movies really didn't do as well as maybe they expected is because it went away from what really worked well in that it works well when they're all together at the ensemble.

[00:26:23] And that's what made TNG special like while the series ran. And that's what made Season 3 special, you know for Picard because everyone had a part in the story and they had their own unique set of skills and perspective that was necessary in order to actually, you know, defeat the

[00:26:41] board ultimately, like figure out puzzles that you know they had to solve to get there and everything like everyone had a little role that they need to play.

[00:26:50] Yeah, I mean, technically, Deanna saved the day right because if Riker didn't stay down there. She would have her and Zotti connection in order to save Picard and Jack.

[00:27:01] Right, you know so yeah they all had their roles. And but they also bounced off of each other really well like even just the scene of Picard and Beverly reuniting and here's Riker bringing her in, you know, and he's watching this exchange.

[00:27:17] And he even made the joke of to Jack is all like, I was watching you cook before you were even born. Right. So they all worked so well together.

[00:27:28] That's why the observation lounge when they were all together around the table and the poker scene. Yes, you know seeing them together and also knowing that that poker scene was so improv it was just friends, like you could see it

[00:27:42] and it's not even just the characters but the actors. Right, they're just a big family. And so it was so great to see but of course we did have a couple of not so great moments.

[00:27:54] So that was like true very one thing you didn't like and I cheated and I did too.

[00:28:02] I did Vatican death and Jack leaving. There was something really wrong with how this ended. Vatic, I love Vatic. She was delicious. She was that villain that you're like almost rooting for because she was so cool.

[00:28:19] And the way she died was so anticlimactic. Totally agree. Absolutely agree with that. I was like, yeah, what she just gets blown out in space and just turns into multiple pieces.

[00:28:33] Even though even though it was you know she was frozen and shattered on the strike the strike it was it just remind me of like a bug splattering on someone's windshield. I'm never going to see that scene again. But it was so true.

[00:28:50] You know like this is you know very formidable and very you know wily adversary you know and you know cunning twisted. Yeah, and you know she deserved you know definitely a better end than what she got but you know then there's of course you know how cruel life can be sometimes you know they do end up you know.

[00:29:15] But it did. It was it just seemed so okay yeah she's not useful anymore.

[00:29:20] And this is where the Jack leaving part also comes in because I felt him just being like, oh it's the Bork ring will piece out I'm going to go deal with her and I was like that's very childish and not cool.

[00:29:34] I didn't like how he was just like well I'm going to handle it and he leaves and I was all dude, like you know something's wrong with you your eyes are turning red or taking over people's bodies.

[00:29:46] Your mother screaming at you to not leave and you're just like checking out.

[00:29:50] But I think this is what I would have wanted to see the episode was called surrender. Right, it ended up being data surrendering to lower but then tricking him in order for Lord to be destroyed cool great that's awesome but I would have really liked for Jack because he kept trying to go out into the bridge right.

[00:30:11] Picard and Crusher kept stopping him and it was like no no no don't sacrifice yourself. I would have loved if he actually did go out onto the bridge. And there was a moment where he really wanted to know what was wrong because she was giving him hints.

[00:30:25] And he's like, I will leave with you if you leave them alone. Okay, he's finally going to do what he had been doing these last eight episodes trying to turn himself in to save everybody else.

[00:30:37] He goes with her. She takes him to the Borg. It's the Borg Queen that's like, thank you goodbye and kills Vatic because that's just how she is. So that's how Vatic ends. She gets betrayed. And then Jack turns into Vox and that whole situation happens.

[00:30:56] I think that would have played in a little bit better than how this ended because it was like easy kill. He just left. That was it.

[00:31:09] Yeah, and when he left it's it was like okay it's just been you and your mother first you know like, you know your whole life. You're just going to suddenly not listen to a word he says, particularly when you approached her to say hey there's something really wrong with me.

[00:31:22] Please help me. And now she's like, oh yeah I'm going to just completely ignore you and just kind of do it my way and see ya.

[00:31:31] Yeah, he's like, oh it's the Borg Queen. I can handle her. Hello. Like no you can't. It just really left a bad taste in my mouth.

[00:31:42] And like I said, Vatic's death and Jack Levy kind of played hand in hand with each other. I just think if they went that direction that I had mentioned, I think it would have been much of a smoother transition.

[00:31:54] Everyone was expecting it. Everyone thought he was going to surrender himself at some point. So just do it. You know, this is like don't try to make such a huge surprise but then it was a surprise that wasn't the greatest.

[00:32:06] But I mean maybe scenes were cut out, you know because that does happen. Maybe there was other scenes that might have made it more fulfilling than what we got. I'm not sure.

[00:32:18] Now I'm curious though why did you choose this moment for your, you know Starfleet is my family?

[00:32:25] Well it was kind of like mostly thinking of Jack and how incredibly devastated he must have been, you know, emotionally given what happened because, you know, there was that big argument in when, you know, Picard and Beverly do finally come together and she's like,

[00:32:44] Hey, you know, I told him who you were and how to get ahold of you. You know, he chose not to, you know, as far as she knew. Yeah.

[00:32:54] Little did she know that he actually did decide well, you know, I will try and search him out. You know, and it said it was five years previously which says he's a teenager. So he's a kid.

[00:33:04] You know, it was an incredibly brave thing on his part to do. You know, my father's this legendary Starfleet officer and, you know, right, according to my mom, you know, he must be an okay guy if she has all these fond memories of him.

[00:33:20] So yeah, maybe I will try and find him and talk to him and then he finds him and, you know, he musters up the courage to actually speak to him and ask him a question and then, you know, the response he gets.

[00:33:34] You know, to say, yeah, Starfleet is the only family I ever need and then have the adoring, you know, crowd of cadets, you know, applauding him and then he's like, you know, playing to that crowd and acknowledging yes and thank you, thank you, you know, and then, you know, and then of course, you know, poor Jack, you can almost hear his heart break and then go to look back and you know, he's gone, of course.

[00:33:55] And can you imagine how he felt though for his mom in that moment. Yeah, just like, Like she didn't matter, like he probably just thought she didn't matter to him. No wonder she left. Right. No wonder he's, you know, she's been trying to keep me from him.

[00:34:12] But yeah, I mean, just all the courage and vulnerability and just to have it just fall apart. Right. Yeah. And I, and I always thought too that, you know, she probably, you know, he probably told her, you know, yeah, I'm going to think about going.

[00:34:33] And so that makes her excited because I'm sure she always wanted to see Picard again at some point. Right. And she was probably hoping that this would be the reunion that she's waited for to see Picard and to explain and all that stuff.

[00:34:48] And then Jack comes back and is just like, I've decided I'm not going to see him. That must have been devastating for her. And I'm sure she didn't push it because she's respecting her son's wishes.

[00:35:00] But I'm sure that was so hurtful that maybe she thought I ruined this chance for them to be a relationship of some point, you know, especially was always one to always put blame on herself even if it wasn't her fault.

[00:35:15] Although what they finally did get together if she had known that, you know, he had, you know, approached him and was treated that way. I don't think she would be very happy either.

[00:35:25] No, and all that hostility that he had, you know, went, you know, why didn't you tell me and stuff like that? Right. You know, he did try and talk to you. But I mean, granted, he did not know who he was.

[00:35:38] But at the same point in time, it's like, you know, he did try and contact you and he got terribly hurt. I think though, Beverly would have known why he said it. She knew Picard better than Picard knew himself. And she's like, okay, let me get this straight.

[00:35:55] There was a bunch of kids asking him these questions. Yeah, I could see why he was an idiot and said that, especially knowing the fact that, hey, Jack, remember, he didn't know who you were.

[00:36:04] I can kind of see Beverly almost defending him in a sense, but because Jack didn't know him from Timbuktu. He didn't know who he was. So to him, it's like, oh, he's a jerk. Like that was the first instinct.

[00:36:22] But for Beverly, she would be like, and now Picard is just like this. So I mean, there might have been that kind of reaction at the end, but it was heartbreaking. It was really sad.

[00:36:38] It was kind of weird though where all of a sudden Picard then realized on the bridge after they were leaving the Nebulae. He was like, oh, that was you. Yeah, that part just really hit strangely.

[00:36:48] It's like, you know, it had to in order to kind of get that kind of recognition. But it was still, you know, it was odd.

[00:37:01] It was odd just at this moment when he's thinking of something that reminds him of, you know, because it was the crew, you know, just celebrating together that kind of sparked the speech that he was giving to the cadets. And oh, yeah, he did come into the bar.

[00:37:17] He did come into the bar. He did come into the bar. That was him. So our third choice here was actually our favorite episode and I'm going to go ahead and play mine.

[00:37:51] All to the same stars that own you as a mother, your whole being is about protecting your child. I thought I could protect mine. I didn't know if I could protect yours. That whole sick bass scene. Okay, I got to just take a moment.

[00:38:22] I remember when this first came out, I was kind of ranking like the best to the least favorite episodes. Like I love all the episodes, but you know, you have your favorites versus others.

[00:38:34] At first I actually ranked the bounty as my favorite and that was just because of all the nostalgia to it. We had everybody there. It was showed a professor Moriarty. It showed the scene with the pop goes the weasel, you know, stuff like that. Right.

[00:38:52] The reunion with Jordy and Beverly and Wharf and Beverly, you know, all that stuff was happening. But as this last year has come on, I've really, really respected this episode. It's a Jonathan Frakes episode obviously.

[00:39:07] This scene between Picard and Beverly and sick Bay was something the fans had always wanted to see them just going at each other. That emotional, those that angst, those feels just all laid out.

[00:39:23] They were just I think Patrick actually said this in an interview where they were just raw and naked in this moment. And it's true. And I remember like I had said earlier, these actors are now seasoned actors.

[00:39:37] And so here comes Gates and she is going toe to toe with Sir Patrick Stewart. And it was brilliantly done. And this actual episode, well, the scene was picked from I believe it was TV lines performance of the week because it was so well done.

[00:39:58] And I love watching this episode over and over. We got Beverly in her lab coat. She saved Shaw's life in the very end. And she saved Jack's life. And there's that moment where Jack almost died and all that. It was just so good.

[00:40:14] Was there anything in 17 seconds that you were just like, oh my gosh, I can't believe they did that or oh my gosh, I wish they did that or something.

[00:40:23] Well, no, actually, like all the scenes you're referring to it's like, you know, those were the things that kind of needed to happen.

[00:40:30] And, you know, they needed to have it out, you know, and have that, that, you know, just exchange to just, you know, it wouldn't necessarily be to clear the air but just get those pent up, you know, emotions that have been there for such a long time and

[00:40:46] to be expressed and have been bottled up so much.

[00:40:50] And with the, you know, Jack being in mortal peril, you know, it's like, and this Sean Luke is when you become a father, you know, because you have that moment, you know, yeah, you never wanted a family but now this is, you know, that

[00:41:05] is a conversation reminiscing back to that scene, you know, talking to Riker and stuff. And I am, you know, becoming a father I'm seeing, you know, this human here who, you know, is my son and is really feeling like my son now.

[00:41:20] And because, you know, I'm seeing him in danger of dying and, you know, I don't know what to do. Right.

[00:41:27] I, as you know, I'm a Vitter. I love making my videos and I did a video of Picard going on the turbo lift going in seeing Jack Beverly saving Jack but with Riker's words in the background saying like it took 17 seconds on, you know, the longest 17 seconds of my life and talking about how his son survived and, you know, you're just looking at your child and you have to protect him at all costs

[00:41:57] and I really wanted to combine those twos because that was what Terry did. He did that on purpose or this was Cindy Appel and oh, I forgot the second writer's name but they combined those two moments and of course all the titles of these episodes represented something disengaged that was

[00:42:16] a little bit of a rift to Rafi. Definitely the next generation and last generation was there combining the two with the group and stuff like that but there was just something about 17 seconds like you said is just they really brought out all of that pent up anger, all of that frustration, all of that hurt.

[00:42:34] I mean Beverly was guilt felt guilty that she kept Jack away but she felt she had no choice. I know a lot of people put down Beverly for what she did and yes, was it wrong of her? Yes, but she kind of did it for the right reasons. It's like go back and watch bloodlines.

[00:42:53] He wanted so much revenge of Picard that he was going to kill an innocent person who had nothing to do with Picard just to seek revenge. So what are they going to do with his actual son? Right? And she was naming things, you know.

[00:43:10] And then in that scene, the video clip from earlier where she was saying you know when it's known that he is the son of Captain Picard, there is a target on his back. It's like you can't take the bell. Exactly. You know once that information is out there you can't take it back and so you can't be very, very careful. You have to really, really know what all the implications are of having that information be known.

[00:43:31] Yeah. And there was always something happening like every time I try to tell you I was pregnant, you know, you got kidnapped and was held for nine days. Then there was a disruptor to your head. And it was like a bomb went off when you tried to do negotiations.

[00:43:47] Like she's all like it was always going to be like that. And it was always like that before. And she was like you were always in my sick bay. I almost lost you. The Borg picked him for goodness sakes to be their leader, their voice of some sort of just there was something about Picard that was so interesting to enemies that he was always picked.

[00:44:09] Look what happened in chain and command the Kardashians, you know took him. There was always something going on and she was like I already lost my parents. I lost my husband. I lost my son Wesley to the same stars that own you.

[00:44:25] There was no way she's like I already lost you. Like I was never going to have you completely. So I might as well protect the child that the part of you that I can never have.

[00:44:37] Right. Right. Yeah. So and all those all of those incidents were further evidence it's like, you know, much as I would like to, you know, reveal this information to you and, you know, give you a chance to be involved.

[00:44:51] There's just too much at stake here. I mean, you know, every every incident that's happening in this short period of time is saying that, you know, it's just going to be one after another after another after another and how many, you know, of these, you know, incidents.

[00:45:06] Can we have where, you know, before they succeed? Yeah, exactly. Now let's get into your favorite episode. Beverly, lead me to our son. I can lead you to the next level but after that the interference increases and I'm unable to be more specific with Jack's location. John Luke.

[00:45:30] I, Beverly, you thought of Jack from the beginning shielding him from danger. You did everything right. Oh, I love that scene. Okay, talk about last generation.

[00:45:45] Yeah, that I mean, that absolutely needed to happen. You know, that acknowledges like, you know, I came at you like, you know, just so angry that you know for you to have, you know, kept him from me and this like, well, you know what?

[00:45:59] You're right. I admit it. And that's hard for Picard to do. Right. He's not one to admit when he's wrong, but he's like, we're in danger. Our son is captured by the board. Like you did everything right.

[00:46:14] Right. Like all he could do was just thank her at this point for protecting her. There was, there was a lot actually in the last couple episodes where he was giving Beverly a lot of high praises, even at the point in Vox when she was like, so this was a dormant part of Jack his entire life.

[00:46:33] How did I miss this? And he's like, it's a testament to you that he was able to resist for so long.

[00:46:39] And even Jack had said, I had always heard voices and I thought it was you. Like she was his constant. I Beverly was Jack's touchstone. Right. So anytime the board crane tried to communicate with him in some capacity, he was able to resist because of his mother.

[00:46:59] Right. They had that long attachment and she was his anchor.

[00:47:03] Exactly. Yeah, which you know, that's why I think him leaving put a sour taste in my mouth because she's screaming to not leave and he's ignoring her. Right. But I was very glad at the point in the last generation when Picard does go in and the board queen was like, what else could I do but give him a mother's love.

[00:47:29] And he's like, you are not his mother. Absolutely. That was us. Right. You are not his mother. Like, don't even. Oh my gosh. I loved it.

[00:47:44] And later in the episode, that earlier discussion when she's talking about all the loss that she suffered with her parents and with Wesley and everything.

[00:47:53] And at that moment when she had to make the decision, you know, whether she had to fire that shot to kill Jack as well.

[00:48:01] And there's just all of that. You know, it's like, I don't want to lose him too but then him versus the entire universe, the needs of many. The needs of many. Yeah, exactly.

[00:48:14] It's a hard decision anyways. But when you have all of that history behind that decision, I mean, what an incredible person to actually be able to say, yeah, the universe's survival needs to happen above all my needs of keeping my son and the other people I love that are down there in the cube.

[00:48:40] There was something that was told to me last year. And what she said was, this was Beverly's arc episode one was Beverly almost died trying to keep Jack safe.

[00:48:53] And then episode 10 she makes the hard decision to sacrifice Jack for to save the universe. Right. So she was doing anything she could even almost dying herself to protect Jack.

[00:49:07] Then she had to make that decision to sacrifice him in order to save everybody. And that is just a testament to Beverly's character. That's why we love her as a character so much.

[00:49:18] I know you've mentioned in the past like she was a surrogate mother to you as a child, you know, for me, she was a representation of a single mom but she really didn't see very often and those times, especially not in those times.

[00:49:32] And so it's one of those things that's all like, wow, she was just a powerful and she's gone through hell. And we all have our story, right? We've all gotten hell and back for whatever reason.

[00:49:45] And it's like that fire and that strength and that compassion and love that Beverly carries is something that we could learn from, you know. And I think too, and I say this now, you know, I have grown a lot as a person, especially these last couple of years.

[00:50:05] And I, it's testament to Gates because it's not only the character she plays. She's embodying that character. She is putting herself into this character to being 110%.

[00:50:19] And it was one of those things but Gates herself is full of that compassion and love and kindness and just, you know, fire in that soul, right?

[00:50:32] And if I could be half as amazing, yeah. And if I could be half as amazing as Gates is, I'm doing pretty damn good.

[00:50:39] And, you know, she's inspired me to be just a better person just because of who she is. And that's what I learned from the character.

[00:50:44] Definitely. Like just you talk about, you know, change like, you know, when I was 11 years old, you know, I was incredibly shy and like there was a time during, you know, one TNG was still running that I, you know, was thinking about, oh, maybe I'll write a fan letter and send it in.

[00:51:03] But I was too scared and to think, you know, fast forward to now, you know, I have met her in person, you know, how many times and spoken to her, you know.

[00:51:11] Yeah. You know, it's just like, well, you know, coming full circle. Exactly. And, you know, it is, you know, inspiration. She can be inspiring in so many ways, you know, right through her character and through herself.

[00:51:26] Yeah. And I mean, that's just how Gates is, right? You know, I was gifted a cameo last year after my trauma. And one of the things that she had said was, you know, she had seen the loving kindness that I had given out and I was inspired by that because I was like, oh, wow, I hope I'm doing pretty good, you know, I'm hoping,

[00:51:49] I'm hoping, exuding that because I learned that from her. Right. I learned that loving kindness from her. And so she was seeing that I was like, okay, perfect, we're doing exactly, you know, and I could say the same about you, you know, you have that loving kindness towards others and you're just a very,

[00:52:08] you know, gracious and extremely nice person. And we're learning this from a character that's on TV, but it's because of how Gates portrayed her. Yeah. And you could see moments where a lot of her came through the character.

[00:52:23] Exactly. Was there anything else though that was extra special to you in the last generation and why you picked it as your favorite episode?

[00:52:32] Mostly it was just like the culmination of everything, you know, you see that, you know, Picard recognizes, okay, you know, I admit, you know, that you did the right thing in trying to, you know, have protecting Jack as the top priority rather than Right.

[00:52:50] Trying to include me, you know, as a father and then having the entire crew come back together that last time on the D. Oh yeah.

[00:52:59] And you know, everyone having the D back was great. I know people are like, Oh, too much nostalgia. It was needed. It was part of the story and I know how much people hated that the board came back. But honestly, season two that board story made no sense.

[00:53:14] But this did. Like I had said, he was the son of John Luke Picard but he was also the son of the cutest and here it was. Right.

[00:53:24] And also the kind of standing conventions on their head in the sense that normally when someone's coming to the rescue, it's like a young hero coming to the rescue of the elders where in this case, you know, it's the season veterans saying okay kids we're on the way and

[00:53:41] We're on the way. We got this. And you know, in this instance where sometimes it's like the latest technology that you know is what comes in and helps solve the problem. It's like, and then they revert back to sort of an analog.

[00:53:56] And that's the only way that they can get past all of the networking and connections between the starships and just flipping that was really a great thing to do.

[00:54:08] It was great. Yeah, that was just perfect writing on Terry's part to think all of that putting those pieces together and how everything fit. That's what I think made season three so special.

[00:54:20] And of course I decided to go ahead and ask our audience about what they thought. So here is my try corner rating.

[00:54:34] So of course I went and I got 61 votes total I had different polls on threads and Instagram and Twitter and also YouTube so it's a combination of everything. And this is what they said so five cents said one to two borgs. That's what they thought season three.

[00:54:52] And I, those were the ones it was like three votes. And I think it was because they were the too much nostalgia too much.

[00:55:00] And it's like, but it works with the story like you have to revisit the past in order to continue with the future right now 11% gave it three Chateau so they were in the middle of the road.

[00:55:14] Chateau Picard's excuse me and then a little bit sour not just a little sour. Yeah, a little tart nothing too bad 33% gave it for Captain Shaw's Captain Shaw's because I am a huge Jaws fan and I loved that they honored Robert Shaw in this character and of course the Wolf 359 store you know that

[00:55:38] the speech that he had in no one scenario was a chef's kiss so Todd Stashwick you are a wonderful brilliant addition to Star Trek and we were so happy to have you on here and it sucks that you died and I hope they bring you back.

[00:55:53] He's a wonderful person as well. He is very wonderful we both have met him in person he is fantastic he took a picture with my mini Bev and he no questions asked he's like a little bad sure.

[00:56:06] And so to Terry metallis they were totally gracious, but 51%. Most folks get five mixtapes, they loved it. And so we ended up actually having the same score 4.5. That was our score I mean, as you, as we've just been discussing, it wasn't perfect, but it was close.

[00:56:28] Right. I mean, it's never going to be exact. There's always going to be a little something that you know people like well, you know, you're never going to please everyone all the time. But he came just about as close as you could possibly get.

[00:56:42] Absolutely. And you know, one thing too as I've talked about the story. I'm not a writer, you know guys I have my choices I have like I wish they had done it this way. But I'm still going to enjoy the season.

[00:56:54] Even if it's not the exact way I wish they had it. There was one thing that I felt that that was a miss.

[00:57:03] And this is just an added, you know, thing to the story was, I kind of wish they had more of the Beverly and Jack when he became Fox. I think if she had felt his assimilation and felt that he had changed, you know there was a connection.

[00:57:19] We've always talked about Beverly being special. We've always talked, you know, the love for your children like I'm a mother, I have a special bond with my child.

[00:57:27] I feel like they, they kind of did it a little bit in the last generation where she was really focusing on her attention to Jack when she was asking Deanna and Picard going down.

[00:57:38] But I felt that there was more of a miss in the sense that I wish she was kind of more involved than it just being about Picard and Jack at the very end.

[00:57:47] Yeah, there was that brief little blip in that, you know, montage that they're showing while they were hugging the head Beverly in it but it was only a brief flip.

[00:57:55] And it's like, you know, it was her love that sustained you for the first, you know, couple decades of your life. So, you know, it should be pulling you back. A little bit more. A little bit more.

[00:58:06] And I get it. The thing that was missing in his life was his father just like Jack was the missing piece for Picard. I understand where Terry was going with and I totally agree 100%. Great. Beverly was that touchstone. She was that centerpiece for both of their lives.

[00:58:22] And I just felt that they didn't really grasp that enough. Yeah, it's like if someone's your anchor for that long, there's got to be the anchors kind of got to help pull you back to correct. Yeah.

[00:58:36] I do want to add real real fast we have not mentioned this but Captain Seven got to love it. I think Seven Story Arc is the best story arc in Star Trek history. I'm just going to say it right now.

[00:58:50] I finally finished Voyager. Yay me and seeing her be, you know, becoming that from that Borg drone to who she is now she is the captain of the enterprise. And I was like, you go girl, you get it.

[00:59:03] And I will admit I really haven't seen a lot of Voyager episodes but even just like I did go back and see like the previous seasons of Picard and even during that short time you can you can see a huge development as far as Oh yeah.

[00:59:18] isn't her character. Right. Now, of course, downside was Safi. I feel bad. Like those poor shippers like we thought we were bad with the Crusher but like they didn't get crap.

[00:59:30] Like they got these little snippets at the end of season one and season two and then oh they're broken up. I'm just like, come on guys, like if you're going to tell a story, a love story between these two, just tell it. Put it out there.

[00:59:41] At least they're now you know, first officer and captain of the enterprise which is great but this is why we want legacy we really want to see Seven now be that Janeway character right she's the mother character she's the one that's going to be putting you know have Jack under her wing or even

[00:59:58] Sydney or anyone on the crew. She's going to have Rafi's help. It would be really, really nice to have legacy it's probably not going to happen anytime soon but

[01:00:06] What could always dream we could always dream and you know Terry was like I have ideas and of course we get Q back at the very end of it because now he's onto Jack's journey of humanity.

[01:00:18] I did my one thought though was when that happened I was like oh best going to be so pissed. She's like, you bring him to me. I'm going as long as I'm not being a dog again.

[01:00:33] That was also a really good episode I mean poor Beverly like she gave birth to a traveler she had an adopted daughter that was a Q and then she gave birth to a board. She can't she can't win. She cannot for sure.

[01:00:51] Well that was our redhead alert and of course it is going to be talking about my next episode so I am going to be sitting down with Tim from fsf Popcast and I'm going to be talking about Gates and comments and I'm telling you I was so stoked when I saw Gates do the voice of mother

[01:01:11] Eskani on X-Men 97 and she of course was also Queen Marlena in He-Man so that was super exciting.

[01:01:20] We are going to be going live next week at 5pm specific standard time so please hit me up at my YouTube channel there but I did want to mention guys I actually have a second redhead alert and it's because it's big news and I'm super excited.

[01:01:37] I will be interviewing John Billingsley and I'm calling it a night with Flux. What's funny is I haven't seen one episode of Enterprise but that's okay.

[01:01:48] I think I think I have a good idea of who Flux he's a doctor so this is a perfect show for him to be on but I got to know John a little bit he was very gracious very kind and he was like you bring back your podcast hit me up and here we are so this

[01:02:06] interview is going to drop I believe on July 5th so I will be talking with him and definitely I'm going to want to have your penny for your thoughts definitely I want some questions in there but yeah I am super excited for that. Congratulations that's amazing. Thank you.

[01:02:26] I know I was holding it in this last month but it's definitely going to be a good one. July marks a two year anniversary for Crusher Convo and like I said John's been great.

[01:02:37] We'll talk about his career and his foundations that he near and dear to his heart which is the Hollywood food coillation and Pan Can for pancreatic cancer so yeah I think it's going to be a lots of fun I'm super excited so you're the first to know about it Aaron congratulations.

[01:02:54] I'm very privileged thank you.

[01:02:57] But yeah it's definitely going to be a great time but you know you could also find me on different platforms here so I'm on any podcast Spotify Apple Good Pods, you could buy me a coffee by scanning that QR code that's been on the top right corner by some

[01:03:18] old and new artwork that I have at T public but of course all this information is at Crusher Convo.com.

[01:03:25] I have been lots of fun bringing this back it's been lots of fun coming back at a different way with with Crusher Convo on YouTube form I hope I'm not disappointing anybody with my different topics but you know I'm a nerd at heart.

[01:03:41] I love different nerdy things and so I thought crossing the streams would be interesting, especially with Beverly Crusher.

[01:03:50] But like I said you can go ahead and like and subscribe on YouTube you could hit me up on at Crusher Convo on Instagram and threads and like I said you can also hear all my audio on your favorite podcast now Aaron.

[01:04:05] Why don't you let people know where they could find you. Well currently I haven't really diversified in terms of platforms right now. I'm mostly on Twitter at fierce core and far. So you can please follow me there and hopefully I will have some new costumes coming up soon.

[01:04:26] But Aaron it is such a pleasure to always have you thank you so much for being a long time listener and supporter of Crusher Convo and talking about Beverly Crusher. I appreciate you so so much. And of course guys live long and prosper. Thank you so much.

[01:04:42] Bye guys. Bye.