Ep: 023 The Devidian Destruction

[00:00:00] I think I'm saying that we struggle all our lives to answer it. But it's the struggle that is important. That's what helps us to define our place in the universe. This is Beverly, Dr. Beverly, Dr. Beverly Crusher. Honest. Forceful. Trusting. Brilliant. Strong. Adventurous. And this is Crusher Convo.

[00:00:30] Hello everyone and welcome to Crusher Convo, where we are crushing the conversation one episode at a time. I am your host, Jessi, and I am super excited because I'm going to be discussing Time's Arrow and the CODA series.

[00:00:48] And I decided to do this ahead of one of the authors of CODA, which is Dayton Ward. His book comes out on May 21st, his new book, which is set in Star Trek The Next Generation and DS9.

[00:01:02] So I really wanted to discuss this because Time's Arrow is one of those two parters that are not necessarily the greatest two parters. I guess you can say it's not horrible. But, you know, it almost just kind of, you know, the finale for season five, it was good.

[00:01:22] It was all about data and trying to figure out how he died. And then he gets set back to, I think it was 1898, I believe it was or something like that.

[00:01:32] And of course the premiere is the rest of the gang coming back and trying to get him back. And we see Clemens who is supposed to be, you know, oh my gosh, I can't think of his name right now. Famous author. Mark Twain, there we go.

[00:01:50] I took that a second. I do watch Lower Decks, I swear. So that just took a little second for me. But I think it's a good episode but it did have some plot holes in it that never really was discussed.

[00:02:05] And I think this is where CODA comes in and really took something that was just kind of there and gone and never discussed again and really elevated to the point of where you're like, oh my gosh, this could have totally happened

[00:02:18] because they did have these aliens called the Davidians who were pretty nasty little creatures who went back on earth, basically sucked the energy out of humans to survive. Right? Kind of getting Ronan vibes out of this, you know, because that's what he was doing with Beverly's family.

[00:02:36] He was sucking their energy in order to survive. So this kind of led to that. So maybe Ronan was a Davidian. I don't know. He was an anaphysic energy. That's all I know. But I thought it would be just really interesting to discuss this.

[00:02:52] This was the first books that I got to read as a Star Trek fan because, you know, I just barely started watching it in 2022. And I was told by a lot of my friends at the time to read these books prior to watching Star Trek Picard.

[00:03:09] And it was just because of how well Beverly Crusher was written and they were not wrong. It would, these I've have read more books since then. These books have been fascinating. And of course they've set in this expanded universe between nemesis up to Picard. Right?

[00:03:30] And I think they did a brilliant job and we'll discuss more as I kind of deep dive into Coda. But it was, of course, the site of Beverly Crusher and Picard and all that stuff that we wish we got to see on screen. Okay.

[00:03:45] So I think, yeah, I just think it was just a fairly, a really good series. And it definitely deserves the recognition. But yeah, I think we would just go ahead and jump right in. So I'm going to go ahead and do that right now. All right.

[00:04:12] So here of course, Scream Cap from Times Arrow. This is actually from part two nearing the end of their adventure. I think what's interesting about this is, of course, they got to do something different, right?

[00:04:28] They got to go back into the 19th century and dress up and just, you know, not have to be on a starship and all that kind of stuff. Right? So I think it was just very interesting how the story went. Like I said, it wasn't bad or anything.

[00:04:44] It just kind of was quick and didn't really go anywhere later on. At least not for, I mean, that particular story was open and closed pretty well. They found that Data's head was in the cave for 500 years. How did he land there?

[00:05:00] And then turn of events comes through. And then of course they figure it out and the circle is complete. And then that was just because of how Data's head went there. They were supposed to go back. And so it was a really good open and closed part.

[00:05:18] The only two things that I feel was a plot hole was Guynem and Picard's story. And then of course the Davidians. Okay, so the reason why I say about Guynem and Picard, we've never really known about their story.

[00:05:33] I think one of the things is that we knew that they knew each other. We knew that they met. I kind of want to see in a personal matter. And in some cases, I can kind of see why people think this.

[00:05:52] I don't think this is true, but I could see why there might have been a romantic history between the two or they just really, really cared for each other for whatever reason that we just don't know about.

[00:06:02] Now for Guynem, this was her first meeting with Picard that she met him in the 19th century. And then for Picard, this is kind of like a Doctor Who.

[00:06:15] It's a time you whine me wibbly situation, kind of like Riversong and the Doctor where he's meeting her in the middle of him already knowing her. So it's of course a little confusing, but you kind of figure it out.

[00:06:29] But then you just don't understand when did he meet her? Why is it so special? You know, stuff like that. That I feel like it could have been explored more, you know, in that sense. But I do want to mention a little bit of this.

[00:06:48] And the reason why I popped up the Nema Check It Out part is because I have a couple little snippets from his book that I'm going to read. And, you know, it doesn't mention the Davidians very much, which again, I feel like as a plot hole.

[00:07:04] But this one definitely brings up how they kind of decided to deal with the story. So in part one, I'm going to this little section that Larry has here. He says surprisingly, Times Arrow marked the first real time trekking for this crew.

[00:07:24] Holodeck and Q fantasies aside at first pillar said he wanted to bring the crew to the 1990s, but he discarded that idea because it had been done in Star Trek. For the staff discussed the 1960s and the 1930s before deciding on the turn of the century.

[00:07:42] Pillars said that before Joe Manoski went on sabbatical, he left notes on the concluding segment that would open TNG 60s income fall. I do want to highlight a little bit. I did hear that the 1960s portion was that data stop the assassination of John F Kennedy.

[00:08:01] I believe that was their idea, but then they scrapped it.

[00:08:04] And I think it's really cool that Joe did leave notes for them in order to do the sixth season premiere because I remember when they were doing best of both worlds, they weren't sure how it was going to play out.

[00:08:21] And so you know, that's why best of both worlds part one is just so powerful and oh my gosh and you don't know what's happening. And then part two is just like done right.

[00:08:33] And that was just because they didn't have it written and they just had to do it as quickly as they can. So it was good that he put in notes because it does mesh well together right.

[00:08:43] In the second part, it says here anytime you deal with the time with time you're going to have complexities that are hard to grasp pillar said. But if you really look at that closely I think we got them all nicely stitched.

[00:08:57] Taylor, who had modeled her mix of historical fact and fiction on the writings of EL doctoro was satisfied with the outcome but regretted how much the demanding writing distracted her from settling in with the staff right after hiatus.

[00:09:14] It will be the last cliffhanger conclusion whose writing would be off until after hiatus an exciting but very scary custom she was determined to end.

[00:09:23] Regretting that more wasn't done with the 1980s period, Ron Moore said that one of the ideas dropped due to time and budget would have picked up the time travel crew and various jobs after several months centered around their meeting place at a war side cafe run by

[00:09:41] Picard where the running joke was how bad his food was. And I wonder if that's why the whole running joke about how bad his wine is and that's what was in Picard. Maybe that's a little homage, not really sure, but I thought that was kind of cool.

[00:09:57] But like I said the other plot hole to this was the fact that we did not learn more about the Davidians are the after of the aftermath of it right so here are these creatures like I said, suck in the energy out of humans

[00:10:18] and they were to survive. It's very scary for them. They don't know what's going on. They destroy the planet and they stop whatever they were doing in the 19th century.

[00:10:29] But then that was kind of it. I think at the time maybe they just thought well we'll just discuss of how, you know, they were destroyed.

[00:10:38] Which is almost kind of against Star Trek's morals because they're not one to destroy other species or other living beings. Maybe in the sense because there was a danger aspect it wouldn't have been good for them to do that but I'm not really sure.

[00:10:56] It just would have been good to know more about later on, which is what Koda did. So like I said time zero is not one of those greatest two parters it's not even one of those top favorites when it comes to finale and a premiere in between a season but it's not a bad episodes or episodes.

[00:11:19] I think it's just one of those ideas that could have gone more. I think Ron's idea of when it would start and they were there for several months. That kind of changes a person right so even when they would go back to the starship when they go back to the enterprise, their

[00:11:34] mindset's a little different because they just had to survive how we do. They had to work and make money and do all this stuff and Beverly would have been working in the hospital and seeing stuff that she had only heard about and text books.

[00:11:49] I think it would have been really nice to see them in that situation. Again this was not serialized, this was all episodic so the moment that the premiere was over on to episode two.

[00:12:05] So what I feel that Dayton, James and David did with Koda was really grasp those ideas, those loopholes, those what-ifs into a very good story in the midst of what they had to do.

[00:12:30] Okay so I guess we would just go ahead and jump right into that one and that's of course we're going to be talking about Koda. So there was three books total, there was Moments Asunder which was from Dayton Ward, there was The Ashes of Tomorrow which was from James Swallow and then Oblivion's Gate which was from David Mack.

[00:12:55] I got the privilege to talk to Dayton in Salt Lake last year. Extremely nice guy, absolutely had a blast talking with him and what was great is that when I was talking to him about it, I had told him I had a podcast and it was about Beverly Crusher and everything and I had said you wrote Beverly perfectly and he was like oh thank goodness.

[00:13:23] Because they're writers and they're writing what they feel is going to be great for these stories but you never know there's going to be some readers that are not going to be agreeing with how they approach a character which happens a lot in books which is fine.

[00:13:39] Every writer has their different perception of a character or a show that they're writing for but there's just something about especially these three then back to back it was almost like they were all writing these three stories together which kind of they were and I'll get into that in a second.

[00:13:58] But one of the things was I told him it's one of the best series that I've ever read. I think they did wonderfully with it and he was very pleased with that and honestly I don't think I've known anyone who has said anything bad about this series.

[00:14:20] That's how good it is so if you have not read these books I highly highly recommend it especially about how important it is for Star Trek Picard.

[00:14:31] The reason why I say that is because they had written all these books from like I said after Nemesis up until this point and these books basically depicted what happened to these characters after after what happened on Nemesis.

[00:14:50] And of course we all know that Troy and Riker got married and in the books they had a daughter that they named Natasha for after Natasha Yar and then of course Picard and Beverly get married they have a son named Rene. And then of course Riker and Beverly.

[00:15:10] Warf becomes his XO data of course has passed on but is brought back and so is his daughter Lowe.

[00:15:20] I believe Jordi. Yeah Jordi was still the chief engineer Picard was still the captain of the enterprise it was Riker that became an admiral so there was a lot of stuff that was going on in these series of books that just showed their lives after after Nemesis and you know that's what an

[00:15:36] universe does it just tells you a continuing story of after the fact which many franchises does as we know Star Wars has a huge expanded universe that completely got wiped out when they decided to do the Force Awakens.

[00:15:56] This is basically what happened with the Star Trek series. Everything got erased because they decided to do Star Trek card. The difference is we got an ending to those stories versus what happened with Star Wars with Star Wars marriage aid the twins all of it been.

[00:16:18] I did like the homage because JJ had it been so low but in the books it was been Skywalker. So you know there's all these different aspects to to how this how this goes down.

[00:16:33] I liked how they ended it and I like that we got an ending and it makes sense right so from and this is actually in the book and I forgot to bring my book I have an autograph book from Dayton.

[00:16:50] I purchased there at Salt Lake and one of the things was is that he had heard from Christian buyer who was part of Star Trek Picard that they were going to be doing this and it's like oh no what about our stories.

[00:17:03] So as he's learning a little bit more about it, he then later on talks to James and David about creating the series about obliterating the type line is basically what they're going to do.

[00:17:16] You could do that in Star Trek. That's basically what Wesley is as a traveler there's different timelines time and space all that stuff time you want me we believe wobbly stuff right so they said they were together for like a year pinpointing what exactly is going to happen.

[00:17:35] What are going to be the villain of the story of why and this this this this is where the Davidians come in.

[00:17:41] I think it was brilliant that they brought back a one time villain that we only saw for 2.5 seconds and cross havoc and it's not even just a havoc it's complete mass chaos in these books.

[00:17:55] David's was kind of the start of something had happened right and they were trying to figure out what it was James's book is the getting everything together so then they could because they had a plan to try and stop the Davidians and it's like

[00:18:11] and how that was approached and then number in book three of course David was the mass chaos and obliterating the timeline and I don't want to say that they lost in a way, but in a sense it was a loss because they had to lose the timeline.

[00:18:28] That was a big theme throughout the books was you they don't want to lose their timeline right Picard doesn't want to lose Beverly as his wife they don't want to lose their children and you know things like that.

[00:18:43] But in this case in order to finally stop the Davidians they had to make that sacrifice right so I think what was great.

[00:18:53] Especially when you start off there's a lot of Beverly in it because it has to do with Picard it has to do with their summer night and it has to do with Wesley.

[00:19:02] Wesley is a big part of this series which I think is amazing because he is a traveler time and space he there's many different versions of him trying to stop the Davidians.

[00:19:14] Kind of funny as I was rereading these books and then well listening to them I have audible and I was listening to that work.

[00:19:23] And I just watched X-Men 97 so spoiler alert but cable going back try you know multiple versions trying to stop bastion and apocalypse and all that stuff to of how everything ends.

[00:19:39] That's kind of what I felt like with with Wesley and one of the biggest parts of the book was the fact that Beverly loses Wesley not only once but twice. And then so again spoilers if you haven't read the books something happens to Renee.

[00:20:02] One of the things about the Davidians is that they created these avatars and the not Nagas I believe is what they were called. That was supposed to be that snake like creature.

[00:20:15] Okay so anytime they were touched or something people would be obliterated it would just poof gone it was a whole Marvel. Then a snap of the finger just poof.

[00:20:29] And something happened in one where Renee almost got touched but he did it and what it did was is that it grew him up. Okay because what it is is that they're not just poof dying they're literally getting old like like rapidly.

[00:20:49] So because his was like a brush or he was barely touched or it was like the I think the material of the avatar touched him and he became like 1920 years of age but his mind was still a six year old boy.

[00:21:03] So here's Beverly and Picard having to deal with what happened to their son Renee. Beverly witnessed a very old Wesley 300 years old I believe it was die on her table.

[00:21:17] And of course she's trying to be strong and very scientific and to the point of like this is what we found this this this this.

[00:21:27] But of course Dayton is really writing the emotions even though we're only reading it on a page we could see Beverly just numb and devastated and doesn't even know how to process her emotions while she also has to be a doctor and a scientist at the same time.

[00:21:46] And Picard feeling helpless in this moment because he wishes he could take this pain away from her and he can't right. So this was a really good section of the story of how everything progressed.

[00:22:01] Now a different Wesley pops up and he's like I'm alive now this is a 50 year old Wesley so basically a will we didn't write because will is going to be 52 533. So this year I'm very bad at ages so sorry.

[00:22:19] And so he comes and says like basically I'm being recruited by my my other self to try and stop this doctor who vibes because that's same thing that the doctor has done before.

[00:22:34] And as much as they try to figure out the proper way it was almost like, oh well they created this that the whole reason this timeline is being in everyone's dying is because they made a mistake.

[00:22:48] And this was another excellent point from first contact so it's not even nemesis but first contact when the board had gone back in time to try and assimilate and stop the warp drive of Earth meeting the Vulcans.

[00:23:09] That was one of their like, oh we set this whole course in motion when we stopped it.

[00:23:15] And of course because different timelines are on the top of each other this is just how it worked because the board come near in the end of book two into book three.

[00:23:24] And they're part of the problem right because of course the board are going to try and take advantage of the situation.

[00:23:31] We get to see mirror universe characters we get to see DS nine Voyager all of it right very heavily though it's TNG and DS nine because that's what the books were.

[00:23:47] They do start to kill main characters pretty quickly as redax was the first to die she was a captain. So you got to see the emotion and of course a Cisco comes back so you see the emotions of losing Dax because that was his his old man right.

[00:24:06] You hear about with his son and his son as a wife and you hear O'Brien and Keiko Bashir like they're all there.

[00:24:22] But one by one, we start to see this start to crack and people start dying and even characters that were created for the series start to pass away so if you got to read these books back from nemesis time so I believe nemesis was like 2002.

[00:24:44] If you were reading these books back then you got to know these characters that they created of how they met after it's kind of like a raffy for us from Bacardi right.

[00:24:54] They're dying in these books and it's horrible deaths and so Nog dies I think he was the next one to go and very emotional turmoil right we're just seeing these as they're trying to figure out to stop these Davidians there are.

[00:25:13] Losing everyone that they love which is probably why nearing the end it was like we've already lost so much that hopefully obliterating this timeline would be better right because everyone would come back hopefully. So, another thing to.

[00:25:36] And like I said, you know bringing back the board which we get in Picard can never escape the board but I do like how it was much different this time and you see that turmoil from Picard.

[00:25:50] But you see Beverly just being a badass and not wanting to leave Picard behind not wanting to leave Wesley or Renee. It's just.

[00:26:04] Oh one of those things that I this is what I actually wanted to mention Riker as story was huge because you send something is very wrong with him he's definitely not himself.

[00:26:18] And he was having dreams about and this was from another book where another version of the enterprise that didn't have Picard Cohen like there was an overlap between the two.

[00:26:32] And they ended up getting destroyed so that these Davidians were not just destroying this one prime timeline that we knew of after the nemesis, they were destroying every timeline. Okay, in order to survive.

[00:26:47] They didn't care what they were doing they were just like we're going to survive and we're going to suck the life of not only just human humans but timelines work just a big feast for them.

[00:27:01] So as what you're starting to see these characters fracture some characters are dying some are doing a conspiracy theory big one for Tom Paris and Balauna. Tuvok was even in there.

[00:27:18] But what was so good about Beverly being very highlighted in this especially because of Wesley and we already discussed about Wesley dying and coming back what happened to Renee. She was still a doctor.

[00:27:32] She was still a scientist, but she was definitely a wife and a mother and that was her top top top priority. I think what was cool to about the Riker situation and I keep jumping back and forth because I keep amendment and little snippets.

[00:27:50] This other Riker there was like they called it temporal multiple personality disorder. So another Riker who tried to stop the Davidians and they failed.

[00:28:04] Somehow my his mind went into this Riker and he took over to try and stop them in any way possible to not make the same mistakes that they did.

[00:28:19] What was cool and this is because these books were overlapping over when Picard was airing was that this Riker had a son named Fad and a daughter named Kestra.

[00:28:35] So it is the Riker from the Picard era and the one that gets destroyed was the one that they had a child but lost in a miscarriage and then they had Natasha. I really liked how that inner you know just intertwined with each other.

[00:28:55] It just made it where you're like, oh that happened. Okay this makes sense. This could totally work with this. So another thing too is as you know this was very hard for Beverly during this time because she sees her friend Troy going through this.

[00:29:13] She sees her husband going through a lot. Her friends are dying and you know one of the biggest scares for all of them is the stuff they were about to lose was that life that they worked so hard.

[00:29:29] The life that we wanted for Procrescer and it was so devastating to see that all just be eliminated. Right? Like I told Dayton this was stuff we wish we saw on screen.

[00:29:47] This is stuff that we had hoped for Picard and Crusher and I know him as a writer and even David they were James like that. They all just knew that Picard and Crusher were should have been together. Right? And so that's why they wrote that in their stories.

[00:30:07] So to see that just get destroyed was really hard to listen to. And of course in book three all hell breaks loose like just everything is collapsing. Everything like I said people are dying.

[00:30:22] It is just done and again Beverly witnesses the death of a very horrific death mind you of Wesley. I believe he got burned alive in a holographic image. So very Star Wars. Right?

[00:30:41] And even though he died he you know Renee was like no mom listen he's still there because since Wesley was a traveler he was he was a part of the universe is basically what I think they were trying to say. But his mortal body was was gone.

[00:30:57] I remember with the Borg especially the Borg Queen she was trying to get into Picard's head and bring back Lecutis and this kind of stuff. Well torture him because she was pissed right after what happened in first contact.

[00:31:18] And so but this is the part of Beverly where you're like she pulled a.

[00:31:25] A Molly Weasley moment of get away from you know you stay away from my daughter where she just starts blasting into the Borg Queen to save Picard's life which is a side of Beverly we all knew but we only got snippets of it and TNG barely any of it in the movies.

[00:31:47] We luckily got it in Picard but they were fighting for their lives that even Renee who had the mind of a six year old but a body of a 20 year old holding a phaser and shooting at these creatures and it is just absolutely devastating for what they were going through at this time.

[00:32:03] I do remember a section where the mirror Picard was watching his name was Luke was watching Renee and the end of saving Renee's life because he was like I never had a family I never got married.

[00:32:19] And that's almost kind of reminiscent of what we're getting with Star Trek Picard. Of course Picard had a child he just didn't know that at the time. So they're intertwining all these different things and like I said there's so many timelines that could happen.

[00:32:36] People could say this is canon this is not whatever but I think what works so well with this is that this could totally be canon it worked totally with what we're saying right now with Star Trek Picard Star Trek strange new worlds lower decks whatever you want to say right because it just works in that order perfectly.

[00:32:56] As much as they were afraid of what they were going to lose or what was going to happen when they destroyed the timeline in order to save the universe.

[00:33:09] The one thing that was heartbreaking and beautiful at the same time was that everyone's dying it's really just like Renee Beverly and Picard the last ones Renee is holding them he has the device to stop them.

[00:33:25] They just stop it. Beverly says do it they kiss presses the button right that was how they ended that timeline and I thought it was beautifully done because that's how we see Picard and Crusher they have this undenied love for each other that we just never ever ever got to see.

[00:33:46] And it was so sad that we never got to see it because there could have been well they wrote it and this was exactly how we wanted to see it on screen.

[00:33:55] But what was cool about the end of the series is that they were putting out different timelines that we saw like what if Picard didn't enter Starfleet and he was an archaeologist or what if he didn't go far and he was that junior grade.

[00:34:15] Scientist that we saw in tapestry what if he didn't get killed by or loses heart from the Nossikins. What if he did Mary Beverly Crusher what if they did divorce like an all good things. They were just hitting all different timelines.

[00:34:36] What if Picard's mom was still alive. What if she died the way she did like all this stuff. And so then it's like they're looping through different timelines to see which like spin a wheel and see which one sticks.

[00:34:50] And of course you know it ends up ending with Picard and the vineyard retired as an admiral with no Beverly no Renee.

[00:35:02] Never married her you know this is where this one comes in of where Star Trek Picard happens and that's where it's heartbreaking because we're like this is the timeline we got.

[00:35:15] But of course we did get Beverly back. They do have a son his name's not Renee is Jack. You know they did have a relationship it just they never got married they never had that life together they were separated for over 20 years.

[00:35:30] So it's more of this Greek tragedy that it is anything else than we would have had hoped for that we were getting with the stories that you know Dayton and James and David and every other author out there were putting for us fans.

[00:35:45] Because not only are they writers but their fans of the show themselves right so it was greatly appreciated of how they wrote these stories I'm sad those stories no longer are in my opinion no longer canon.

[00:36:05] But they can be it's a different timeline right this those whole series of books are canon in a different timeline that timeline just got erased by these horrible creatures called the Davidians that was just a small little nugget that was mentioned in the next generation.

[00:36:25] So I think that came full circle. And I think it was done beautifully. I think I'm more just sad of how everything happened with Beverly.

[00:36:41] It's almost like one got punched for another for her character because that's just how it it it went for her like no matter how she tried to have happiness in her life. And she did she had lots of happiness in her life. It was taken from her right.

[00:36:59] She lost her parents. She lost her husband. She ended up losing Wesley.

[00:37:05] She ended up losing Picard right and I think you know those things are all still canon since they started that timeline kind of after first contact and nemesis and stuff so anything before that basically the whole series of TNG. All that was still accurate.

[00:37:23] That still stayed the same but it wasn't you know Beverly ended up when that timeline was a believer obliterated and Picard ended up alone Beverly ended up alone with a little boy right so you get to just feel the sadness of her being alone with her son lost her career.

[00:37:46] You know the life that she created was gone and she was doing everything to protect her child. And so again it's just like one of those really really sad things but I think the Coda series really did Beverly justice.

[00:38:02] It was something that we all knew was in her. It was something we all wish we got to see the different series of books that are out there that depict Beverly Crusher.

[00:38:15] I mean some are just little snippets of her in there so it's not very Beverly heavy but even those show yeah that's Bev we just didn't get to see it in the next generation.

[00:38:26] So I'm glad we have those books it's totally different versus what we have with Star Wars expanded universe. They never existed right those books never existed. Take them out of your mind done.

[00:38:44] This one we at least know that there is in some little you know timeline out of time and space in the travelers universe. There is a timeline where Beverly and Picard were married had a son Renee and they were happy and that's what we want for these characters.

[00:39:05] And I'm glad that that's part of it.

[00:39:09] And of course there's other timelines where they were they got married and divorced and didn't have kids and then there's other timelines where they didn't get together at all and you know there's even timelines with even Jack Crusher you know older Jack husband Jack that no matter what Beverly and Jack were never together in any of the timelines because either one of them died either Jack died Beverly died or they were divorced because they were not married.

[00:39:34] And so that's why I'm glad because Wesley died like there was always this tragedy with their story as well, but it was always a part of the story to guide another one.

[00:39:45] Right. So that's even sad in its sense because we know how much Beverly love Jack and you should watch the very first episode of this season where I'm talking about the story that was never told between Beverly and Jack.

[00:39:57] But one of the like I said one of the biggest reasons why I wanted to talk about Kota was not just about how great it is and again if you have not read the books so sorry I spoiled this for you but they are fantastic.

[00:40:09] Definitely a must read. And I think that Dayton James and David really took the time and put a lot of heart like you could tell they know stone unturned.

[00:40:27] Completely just put those little matching every little section and checking off little points here and just making sure that it worked and it made sense.

[00:40:41] And even with certain things where it's like obliterating the timeline or time and space you could you can make up anything and it should make sense when it comes stuff like this right they really took the time for it to make sense.

[00:40:57] Right. I think that was just wonderful and I'm so happy that I got to thank Dayton in person for that because it was just wonderfully done.

[00:41:07] And of course you know one of those reasons that I decided to do this was because of his new book that's coming out so this is his new book.

[00:41:22] It's coming out May 21st. It's called Pliable Truce and I have a little you know snippet here of what it's about so in 2369 which is about season six era of TNG.

[00:41:39] So shortly after Starfleet thwarts a Cardassian attack on a Federation star system the Cardassian government orders to end to its 50 year occupation of the planet Bejour.

[00:41:51] As a result and newly installed but Joran government request immediate assistance from the Federation to mediate how to withdraw will proceed and what recompense if any but Jorans are owned from their brutal oppressors.

[00:42:04] Captain John look for Carter's order by Starfleet command to oversee these tense negotiations on to court to corn or the massive Cardassian space station still orbiting but Bejour even as he still deals with his own recent trauma as a prisoner held and torture by the Cardassian interrogator.

[00:42:21] So of course this is the start of DS 9 obviously and he is part of those negotiations which we know had happened. But yeah this was literally around the time where he just did the whole four light situation.

[00:42:40] So I think this is going to be really good. The cover has Picard and Garrick on it and I you know so Garrick has a probably a big part of this story.

[00:42:52] I can't wait to to read it. I already preordered it. I am super super excited. I know it's going to be really really good.

[00:42:59] But there was also another book that came out this year from one of the authors and of course that is going to be firewall from David Mack.

[00:43:12] Now this was released back in February 27th and this one was about two years after Voyager returned from the Delta Quadrant 7 of 9 finds herself rejected for a position in Starfleet and instead finds a new home with the interstellar rogue law enforcement

[00:43:28] as the Fennest Rangers. The Rangers seem like an ordeal fit for Seven but to embrace this new destiny she must leave behind all she's ever known and risk losing the most important thing in her life.

[00:43:40] Her friendship with Admiral Catherine Janeway. Again I have not read the book yet but I hear it is fantastic so this is basically Seven after Voyager right before Picard right?

[00:43:55] So this is what we're seeing. I really wanted to throw those out there because you know they're still continuing their stories and it fits within the timelines and it fits within canon of what we're seeing on these shows

[00:44:07] and it's filling in those little holes that you know I'm waiting someone please write a book about Beverly story.

[00:44:14] I'm going to go out Beverly story a way really want to know what happened in those 20 years like she said a lot happened in 20 years we want to know what happened we want to know what her life was like without Picard and taking care of Jack and doing illegal stuff

[00:44:30] here and there so I really really hope that comes about like how we got Seven story. I think that is going to be important and I hope we get to see that but yeah I really wanted to throw that out there because I feel like those are important

[00:44:47] and I'm super excited. So so yeah I loved re listening to these books like I said I have audible and that's what I was doing and there was a lot to the stories where I was like oh that happened I forgot again they just they did Beverly justice when at a time of the of the show

[00:45:07] they didn't really do her justice very often right so it was nice to see in this sense of you know proven us fans right this is just how Beverly was and even it fits perfectly with how she was in Star Trek Picard Terry is a huge Star Trek fan.

[00:45:26] He knows these stories he knows these characters and that's why season three was so so good. But yeah it was definitely fun to listen again. Go read them. Fantastic. Do you want to thank Dayton for his time when I met him in Salt Lake

[00:45:47] and all the stories he told me between you know them trying to get those books out are just fascinating. And of course you know with James and David also fantastic writers go look them up read their books. You will not be disappointed if you are a Star Trek fan these books are definitely top notch for sure. But you know that's just how it is so

[00:46:13] So redhead alert guys I do want to let you know that next week you are going to get a bonus episode so this is not live per se it's already been pre recorded but I was with my lovely friend and podcaster Abbey from first flight podcast where she is deep diving the show of Star Trek Enterprise with her co-host Chris from Shelf Nerds

[00:46:52] and we decided to do the best Beverly Crusher outfits and we had so much fun this was such a blast Abbey is a fantastic fantastic person absolutely love her to death I'm super excited about that but

[00:47:08] yeah I think you guys are in for a treat and there will be another live the following week on the 31st where I will be joined by Josh from twist my arm podcast where we're going to be discussing Beverly Crusher in the Star Wars world.

[00:47:26] And I'm super excited about that but yeah please hit us up next week as we talk about the best outfits of Beverly. I hope you guys enjoyed this little video that I did today about Kota and times arrow I want to think of course Larry in his book Larry Nemechek always a pleasure.

[00:47:49] Everyone who has been supporting Crusher combo since I've been back I really appreciate you guys so so much but yeah so if you guys have any thoughts or questions please hit me up drop a comment you can see me on Instagram and on threads at at Crusher combo.

[00:48:06] I will be trying to get the website back up it's not going to be anything too it's gonna be pretty simple stuff but at least we'll have all my information on there and you'll be able to see the recent videos and stuff that I post on Instagram.

[00:48:20] I still will be doing my videos on there as well so you know you'll probably be seeing another another vid drop here soon I'm have a couple songs that I'm interested in and making videos from so yeah I can't wait but anyways guys thank you so much until next time.