Ep: 021 "Jack and Beverly: The Story Never Told"

[00:00:00] I think I'm saying that we struggle all our lives to answer it, but it's the struggle that is important. That's what helps us to define our place in the universe. This is our Beverly, Dr. Beverly, Dr. Dr. Beverly Crusher, Honest. Forceful. Trusting. Brilliant. Strong. An adventurous.

[00:00:26] And this is Crusher Convo. Hello everyone. It is Jessi here at Crusher Convo. Thank you for joining me today as I decide to discuss the story of Jack and Beverly Crusher, or the lack of the rep actually so.

[00:00:45] But yeah, just a little bit about me if this is your first time hearing me or anything like that. So I had started a podcast last year about me and my co-host deep diving. I've been seeing the next generation from the eyes of Beverly Crusher.

[00:01:02] And I feel that Beverly Crusher is a very important character in that she embodies everything that Star Trek represents. And so I always try to bring her more into the light and talk about her and things like that,

[00:01:18] and the good, the bad, the ugly, whatever the story may be. But yeah, so I decided to come back in a live YouTube way just to talk about Beverly Crusher. I mean, I think one of the things is just I love talking with other Star Trek fans.

[00:01:41] And I love their insight and I love, you know, just how everyone has their own idea about how the stories are and things like that, and it can be very good engaging conversations. And I think Beverly Crusher is a good example of that.

[00:01:54] So before I get started, I do have some episodes I'm going to be talking about that kind of highlight the relationship of Jack and Beverly. And also I have a couple of, as I had liked to call it, the Nehmachecate Out, which is Larry Nehmachec's Companion book.

[00:02:18] He has a bunch of insight from each of the episodes behind the scene, just little wonderful little things that I just absolutely eat up.

[00:02:28] And so I want to be mentioning that and then of course a little bit about Star Trek, but because that kind of plays into little bits. But I see, I see row had come in.

[00:02:41] I love this, where I guess there's a competition between row from scarefock as the Tim from FSF, but thank you, row and then make it something. There he is. There, hi, row. And then Sarah, it is nice to see you so hello.

[00:02:59] Please feel free, comment, we'll chat, I'll bring up your guys' comments. You know, that was kind of the big thing about Crusher combo is I really wanted it to be a conversation and just kind of deep dive and get into it.

[00:03:11] My little slogan was, question one episode at a time and so that's what this is we're just going to crush it no matter what. So I think the first thing that I will go ahead and jump in the very beginning right?

[00:03:24] I mean, it was a two hour episode and you kind of could tell there was something going on a history between Beverly and Jarluk Picard.

[00:03:34] And you just didn't know what and of course, their first encounter is when she sees him on the bridge and they have this eye lockie moment.

[00:03:42] I am a Procure fan, don't get me wrong, I learned it Beverly but it all started with Jack in that was kind of that moment that, you know, she even said like,

[00:03:53] when she introduced Wesley because Wesley was behind her, she says the last time he saw him was long ago when she stopped and he kind of knew like the last time I saw you was when Jack had died.

[00:04:04] So that was a good start because you're wondering what is going on, what is their history. We're just barely learning about these characters and they don't really say much but you think they're gonna say, we'll get into that.

[00:04:21] But I'm curious if there was anything anyone in here, you guys could comment also on Twitter or I still call it Twitter, I don't call it X Twitter or my Instagram page,

[00:04:34] which is Crusher combo of what your hopes were, what your thoughts were when you first saw that now I just saw the next generation for the first time two years ago.

[00:04:43] So I'm very, very new and this is probably why I don't sponge, you know absorbed all this information because there's a lot, you know, between all the series and it's like what over 900 episodes of Star Trek. It all intertwines in some way.

[00:05:00] So I think in for this particular story, it set the story narrative to be about Picard and Beverly obviously but we didn't really get enough information, especially in that first episode, but I think the hopes were that we were gonna learn more.

[00:05:18] I think it was a good thing in counter at far point, it's not the greatest episode.

[00:05:22] But I think it was enough for people to be engaged for them to come back and watch it, right? That's kind of your hope even though there was a you could tell that was rewrite.

[00:05:34] Which if everyone knows the story, it was written by DC Fontana but then it was rewritten, re-wrote by Jean Roddenberry and so there was kind of a back and forth.

[00:05:43] I think overall it was able to present itself in a way that got people to come back. Now Sarah says, there are so much said in their eye lucky moment that isn't verbally said as very true.

[00:05:58] I think for Patrick in Gaze, I mean I don't know what it said in the script. I probably should have read that part.

[00:06:06] It was a powerful moment where a lot of people wondered if there was a romantic history between the two because there is a moment when Wesley is talking to Beverly and sick Bay and she's all talking about all the stuff that he's found on the ship and that he really wanted to go on the bridge.

[00:06:25] She was saying that was against the captain's orders and she had mentioned that you know Starfleet captains, they have no chance to have a family, right?

[00:06:37] But then she does this look where there's like a there's just an emotional like baggage like there's something there and you're just like what what is going on.

[00:06:50] I don't know again, I don't know if that was written in the script. Maybe Gaze you know because I know Gaze was told that she was supposed to be a romantic interest for the captain so I think she played it that way but I just love that look and a lot of you know, especially on Instagram I'm a Vitter.

[00:07:11] I create stories through videos of clips of shows and put music to it so it kind of creates its own thing and one of them was the story of Patrick.

[00:07:20] Just kidding, but that was one of those moments that I had to put in right so yeah I definitely definitely love that part in the episode it really got to me and I that's kind of the moment where I was like I'm really engaged with this character of Beverly Crusher.

[00:07:39] I wanted to know more. So yeah and Sarah also says and let's just say that what I wrote in my fanfic did happen it's so much better for it to be canon.

[00:07:50] I'm not sure if I read your fanfic I read a lot of fanfics I probably did but the fans understand where the story should have gone and I know in a lot of times you can't tell everything all at once,

[00:08:03] but these episodes and I'm going to mention we should have gotten something so that's the frustrating part right there. But I think the next episode I'm going to have to talk about is where no one has gone before now this is that.

[00:08:20] I'm a friendy episode where we see the traveler and we learn that Wesley is gifted we're just not really sure what and the reason why I say cringies because the traveler's a little odd and especially his.

[00:08:36] I'm a kind of obsessed with Wesley at this point when it just gets worse later on in the series. But this one was very very interesting I had already known about this so I was kind of happy that it was also mentioned here in Larry's book.

[00:08:52] I know so right here he talks about so in the original teleplay cousin ski which was he was supposed to be the warp specialist when a reality the traveler was doing all the work.

[00:09:03] So it was responsible for both the warp effects and the accident he also had a son who felt he has spent more time in his career with them with him which they took out in the script.

[00:09:13] The crew was in awe of cousin ski and in the original script and the hallucinations were even more bizarre which included an image of jack pressure appearing to both the card and Beverly and they cut it out.

[00:09:26] We did get a image of Picard's mother who we had known had died.

[00:09:32] But you know we don't know when he she died we thought she died of old age of course if I now start to check the card she unfortunately you know had killed herself and fortunately and that haunted him.

[00:09:44] And so they had those family moments like they could have done it and I thought it would been really important especially because the episode was focused on Wesley right so since.

[00:09:57] They're trying to say that there's something special about Wesley it would have been nice to show Jack and it would have been nice to have another one of those eye locking moments that Sarah had mentioned.

[00:10:11] When they saw Jack because at this point we're not really sure the like what had happened to Jack we knew he you know he was the card's best friend we knew I don't even know sure if we knew at this point. But later on we found that out.

[00:10:30] And and later on we found out that Picard was I don't want to say the reason of his passing but he couldn't help him and that's why Jack died.

[00:10:42] So it would have been really good to actually show this scene of Beverly and Picard seeing a ghostly image or something of Jack and kind of bringing more of that story to light because. And it's very, very important in their story their story specifically is very, very important.

[00:11:03] We needed to have those moments right so. Knowing that they had the idea. But then didn't go through with it.

[00:11:15] Was kind of upsetting I was very upset because I thought that would have added more weight to their story and it almost just felt like it was brushed aside which we get that a lot in the series where a lot of it is just brushed aside.

[00:11:29] But that's why I wanted to mention that because it would have really really helped the story overall. The next one is going to be the battle. The battle was an episode of where a forranguie was seeking like vigilante justice for his son blaming Picard.

[00:11:49] I mean, Picard did kill his son but it was through self defense but this forring he didn't believe that and he had the stargazer which was the ship that Picard had captain prior to the enterprise where Jack pressure was his number one.

[00:12:06] And Beverly is very heavily in this episode because she knew something was wrong. He was having headaches, he wasn't feeling well, he thought he was just anxious. And all of a sudden, you know, they're on the ship and they're showing his old quarters and his reminiscing.

[00:12:28] Not one mention of Jack. And going back as I'm watching this for the first time, I obviously didn't realize that until later on that Jack was a part of the stargazer.

[00:12:42] So as you rewatch it, you're just like it's almost like they forgot and she doesn't mention Jack and there's no. I don't even think there was even a story added that Jack was even going to be mentioned.

[00:12:56] I again, another misu opportunity this was about Picard's past that directly was in line with Jack Beverly was there. This could have been another moment of them having a one on one, you know reminiscing about Jack and we didn't get it.

[00:13:13] So I feel this is where the frustration starts to come in and I can't speak for fans back 37 years ago. But I'm sure there was some frustration going on, especially for the Beverly fans just because they're.

[00:13:30] Get in little pieces but they're not getting the full story right it's kind of like they're dangling the carrot.

[00:13:36] And it's like we're almost there but we're not going to give it to you Sarah says they could have had a flashback with Jack on the bridge, but I saw somewhere online that the battle of maxima happened before Jack was on the stargazer.

[00:13:50] I heard actually that could have been true I'm not sure.

[00:13:55] I heard that this happened after Jack died because this would have been because he had lost the stargazer at this moment because it got set on fire, you know he had done the Picard maneuver which was the war boom attack and they all had to abandon ship and that's where the last time he had.

[00:14:16] The stargazer so Jack would have been before the battle he would have died already by this point, but I just felt that again I don't know which story is true that's just kind of I think my assumption because that's when he lost it and I knew Jack was on the stargazer but those also probably a.

[00:14:32] No continuity with the story and season once that's probably why but something right a Jack mentioned. A story you know we've we've had a couple of stories which I'm going to mention in some episodes not about with the card but with Wesley.

[00:14:52] Yeah it is would have been helpful to add some weight to their story that were because everyone's kind of curious what's going on.

[00:14:59] So yeah I think that's just kind of where it was but Sarah that was a very good point to bring up there this episode skitt of evil which is where Tasha Yar is tragically killed a very. And I come actic death.

[00:15:19] The reason why I brought this up really has nothing to do with Jack or Beverly story it was very focused about losing Tasha and all that stuff but in Tasha's funeral and I had posted this image on my pressure comi Instagram.

[00:15:35] I found it on Pinterest I I did not create this but I thought it was very important.

[00:15:40] The thing that she because she was mentioning about what she learned from each of her crewmates and the things she said about Beverly was this your fierce devotion comes from within and can't be diminished for you. I learned to strive for excellence no matter what the personal cost.

[00:16:00] It was a very very good representation of who Beverly is especially the very end of no matter what the personal cost because.

[00:16:09] As we learn about Beverly story I'm a big nerd when it comes to continuity and timelines and all that stuff from what I could figure out because you know some things don't make sense.

[00:16:22] Jack and Beverly were together for a short time we're only married for a short time. She was only like 29 or 30 when Jack died she has a five year old son she's.

[00:16:36] I believe she's a medical school at this point still like she's not in Starfleet Academy or anything she graduated from that but she's still in medical school she's still you know learning to to get her license and everything and now she's a single mom.

[00:16:53] And she's still strive for that like it didn't lose inject and stop her from not only doing better for herself but do better for her son. And she did it alone we again find out later that she doesn't really have much family left that was just her grandmother.

[00:17:11] And of course, the card was out of the picture so. Beverly represented strength in just. pushing yourself and striving to do better and striving to do more and you know and I think tosses words really reflect that.

[00:17:33] So that was kind of the reason why I wanted to bring this up like I said the episode really has nothing to do with Beverly but I did like what she said about Beverly so. I did have to you know push you know bring that up there.

[00:17:49] The bonding this is a very, very important episode. Because we do hear. About Jack and of course this is an episode where they lost a crew member this isn't season three. Beverly had just gotten back not too long ago from Starfleet Academy medical Starfleet medical and.

[00:18:12] They lost a crew member she had a son now this side is an orphan. And so it was bringing up feelings from everybody okay because you know, morphs in orphan but card had to deal with this loss you know Troy has to help it was a Jeremy Astor.

[00:18:32] And the Beverly and Wesley scenes we didn't get a lot which kind of sucked because Beverly is the one that raised Wesley. And we did not get a lot of Wesley Beverly see so what we did get.

[00:18:48] A Beverly fans hold on to as much as we can I am actually going to be playing the clip because I felt that it was very important to show so here we go. Do you ever think about a mom. Your father sure I do.

[00:19:06] Can't even remember what his face looks like scares me. I love how it hates play this. Sometimes I can't get his face out of my mind today. Today it's like I can see it all as clearly as who we're yesterday.

[00:19:38] Can remember the way that looked when he hugged me goodbye. Having the card size when he came to tell us. Moment okay so I think this scene was absolutely fantastic. And it's also because you can tell that jack's death still affects her even 10 plus years later right.

[00:20:08] We don't know you know. They always say like as time goes on you know the morning and stuff like that like every day gets easier but you never forget the person that you lost.

[00:20:20] And so here it's that's where I said gates play this beautifully because you could still tell how much his death still affects her and how upset she is and everything. And then also to the point of where it's affecting Wesley and she can't do anything about it.

[00:20:36] I loved how she said that sometimes I can't get him out of my mind. That means she thinks of him often right. There are probably moments that she always understands of jack is morning him and private still after all these years.

[00:20:50] So I did enjoy this to the point of you know. We got a little nugget of their story and how. These two people you know Wesley and Beverly are still morning the loss of a father and a husband.

[00:21:14] And how much they would wish they could bring him back at this point. So that's why I really wanted to highlight this scene. I think we'll do an amazing job again gates knocked out of the park as usual.

[00:21:28] So now we're in the third season and I know gates was in the second season so they kind of had to do things a little differently but now we're in the third season and here we are just.

[00:21:39] Again, a nugget just a little little something but I'm very happy that a little writers at least brought him into the picture because they could have done this episode completely like they did in the battle not mentioned jack at all right.

[00:21:51] But this was of course more of a Wesley story because he's a one that had to talk to Jeremy then it is Beverly. So I think that's why it was mentioned because just massage me but anyways that's why we you know we at least got that moment.

[00:22:11] Another moment and season four which was family. Again, another great episode this was really good because it showed trauma.

[00:22:24] Okay, you know a lot of start trick episodes they can go through some violations and some horrible things and by the next one it was like everything's rainbows and unicorns right so this of course happens after Picard's.

[00:22:38] I was at a annihilation assimilation as a board and he has to he wants to go home and he's kind of rethinking his life because of what everything that he went through.

[00:22:48] And because everyone's kind of going through something we're kind of seeing a little bit of again Wesley and worth just like we saw in the bonding.

[00:22:56] And this of course was another scene that I wanted to mention because this is where we see that jack was on the star gaser.

[00:23:04] Now I believe we might have mentioned that in I want to say it was conspiracy because that is when the card had mentioned that his two best friends was Walker keel and jack crusher.

[00:23:16] I believe they had mentioned maybe a little bit about the star gaser. I'm not 100% sure, but here you'll see why. Here's on this turn case. Something from home. I left it here in storage a long time ago after Jack died.

[00:23:34] As an ends mostly how to advance your career through marriage. It was a joke. Jack sent it to me when I was still in medical school. It was his way of proposing to me. What's that? It's for Wesley from Jack.

[00:23:54] I forgot in it. Maybe I was just trying to forget it. Why? Jack recorded a holographic message for Wesley just after he was born. It was a gift for him when he grew up. Jack was going to make many more of them. And they've had the chance.

[00:24:16] Are you afraid of what it might say? No. I just don't know if it'll be more harm than good. Wesley's finally come to terms with his father's death. Wesley has a lot of questions about his father. Things that you can't answer for him.

[00:24:34] Perhaps seeing this will help you understand. So again, a wonderful scene, a little nugget that he get from Beverly about Jack. I loved cash. Gates is such a good actress. I loved how she's just looking at his uniform and just remembering him in it, right?

[00:24:53] And just kind of holding onto that memory for a split second before Troy kind of breaks her of her trans. And as she's going through this stuff, which that book, it's kind of funny. He gave that to her of how to advance her career in marriage.

[00:25:10] I know some people think it was his career, but oh, it was her career because she was in medical school. So he's all like, hey, you could be a still a doctor and me married. You know, I guess he was just trying to be funny.

[00:25:21] And that was like she said that was just his way of proposing. But one of those things that were like he wanted to do little videos, I guess, for Wesley and to see him grow up in a different way. I think it's sad.

[00:25:41] Clearly, Jack was a way too often to make more of these because he was on the stargazer. She was clearly on earth because she was still in school.

[00:25:51] She's taking care of Wesley because this was the only one that he got to do in the five years that he was around. So it was nice that we actually got to see Jack and the hologram or on the holiday.

[00:26:07] And Wesley got to see his father and hear his voice because, you know, as he said in the bonding.

[00:26:14] It scares me because he can't remember what his face looks like, right? So this was a good turnover of where we're learning a little bit more about Jack and Beverly and things like that.

[00:26:25] But again, that's all we got. We didn't get any more even with the Wesley and Beverly scene. He's just letting them know, you know, your father wanted to do this and I want you to have it because you're 18.

[00:26:38] That was it. That was the story or the scene and then they just moved on to the holiday and that was it. And I know it was more about the card story and I totally understand that.

[00:26:51] I think from when I recall they were mentioning that there was going to be probably more Jack in like episodes. They wanted to add it and then they just kept cutting it out. Like, I don't know if it was a requirement or things like that because Jean Ronberry.

[00:27:11] Jean Ronberry was actually still alive at this time but I'm not sure how much involved he was. So I'm going to go to Larry's book again because he mentioned something in here. Oh, there's a lot saying here about about Jack.

[00:27:28] So I guess I'm going to say this actually. So this is Jack Crusher where's the old style uniform as lieutenant junior grade in the hall of tape but his locker.

[00:27:40] The the case that she had with his last effects is labeled with the rank of lieutenant commander and the middle initial R.

[00:27:48] But really it calls that he proposed to her when she was in medical school as a dream image Doug would appear as Jack Crusher again in in violations. And I think it also mentions that. Oh, this was oh yes, this was actually a deleted scene.

[00:28:05] And it said, and an unused sequence from a final draft script. Jack says he's about to report to the star gaser and that Wesley are Crusher and name later seen in Beverly's personal file in conundrum was named for Jack's grandfather Richard Wesley Crusher who gave Jack his first flying lesson.

[00:28:25] We also learned that a great grandfather had a painting on an exhibit on prod prod pro do museum in Madrid. Other track continuity touches in the scene, including mentions of a crusher who was a horse thief on nimbus three, which was the planet in Star Trek five.

[00:28:44] Who served as a Confederate soldier at bullrun and a third who died at station Salem one referred to in the defector as the site of an enemy surprise attack. Allapurl Harbor during an unmentioned war.

[00:28:59] There was a deleted scene where he was talking about this and they had cut it out for time. But interesting that they were mentioning about crusher's and it was the continuity of bringing back from the original Star Trek movies and stuff like that.

[00:29:12] That would have been really nice to hear. So I again we get these little nuggets and then even more nuggets that would have been nice to you know that Larry mentions in his book and then they take it out and you're just like okay that's great but.

[00:29:28] We'd like to know more about their story. But yeah I again it's just another. Frustration of just not knowing this this history because we're seeing more a little bit more about Jack and Wesley's eyes, but we're not seeing it through Beverly's and.

[00:29:46] This is where that lack of story happens right guys so. That's kind of the issue here. Now later on in season four we do get a wonderful episode a favorite among the best fans, which was remembered me.

[00:30:02] Remember me of course everyone knows she's trapped in a work bubble people are disappearing. She's not sure what's going on but the whole reason why she had this sequence this what you was she created in her mind was because she was missing Jack.

[00:30:18] She had a friend come which was delicious quay's. David. Ha ha.

[00:30:23] Quay's that was his last name he was talking about losing his wife and stuff like that and she had mentioned about not having many years with Jack but when you lose someone forever and then she gets quiet.

[00:30:34] Those are those moments where you know that losing Jack still affects her to this day even though she still carry on with her life.

[00:30:43] It's a part of her it's part of Beverly's character and so I love that that was mentioned and then she even said that I was thinking of Jack I was thinking of you know losing people.

[00:30:56] Dale in quay's yes thank you thank you thank you Sarah I was having a moment. Um and that was the whole reason for remember me was because she was thinking of Jack again very very nice on just how.

[00:31:16] We we get that nugget and we know that he's a part of her story but we just don't get more of the story right so. I don't think we did need to know more in remember me per se.

[00:31:33] But at least he was mentioned I mean at least there was a few writers out there that really wanted to keep. He's like hey Jack was part the show too even though he was just not.

[00:31:49] Showing a lot or mentioned a lot in everything but he's still part of their story right not only Beverly's but the cards and Wesley's. And yeah it was definitely important that that was brought up but this was a full fledged Beverly episode so if they didn't mention Jack.

[00:32:04] That would have been a horrible decision to do but the next episode that I decided to bring up. I have to bring up a clip because it's all about Jack and that's violations the season five episode we have.

[00:32:19] It is what it is guys Troy, Riker and Beverly were mined raped okay from another alien and.

[00:32:29] Of course hers had to be the loss of Jack and this is just another confirmation that his death still affects her to this day so I'm going to go ahead and play that clip. The card with hair that's funny. Fun fact that's actual hair.

[00:32:56] That's what's going to be. Patrick's wearing the ring and skates his hair in this dream sequence. It's not a second. I have to face the fact that he's got his nose. It's good if he'd come with me. I'm a star. You shouldn't remember it like this.

[00:34:19] Okay so creepy. Very creepy episode, very creepy scene and of course that's when they bring in Jack but I mean it's supposed to be not a good scene because she's going to. Come from his body at the mark.

[00:34:32] This is the only time we technically have a scene with Beverly and Jack in the same sequence. I mean they're not technically in the same scene but it's like there's no other episode guys that Jack and Beverly are in a scene together.

[00:34:51] I don't think Doug and Gates actually worked together.

[00:34:56] He could have been on that slap another day just did a little one shot boom he was done for a couple hours and got paid and she did another scene like they didn't even have to be in the same room. They probably weren't I have no idea.

[00:35:10] Another frustration we never got a Jack and Beverly scene together. What have been nice to see that? What have been nice to see even their chemistry? I think Doug's a good looking guy.

[00:35:22] I think it would have been nice to see and one of the things is that I truly and a lot of the best fans believe this especially the publisher fans. Beverly loved Jack. Love him. She would I think I've always chosen Jack over Picard any day.

[00:35:40] Her love for him was undine. Yes, she had an attraction with Picard and things like that when she was married to Jack but she never acted on it. So there's that very special love that we just didn't get on screen that people like Sarah fanfic writers.

[00:36:00] I mean, I've even done you know when into fanfic a little bit with Beverly and Picard. We have to create our own stories right?

[00:36:07] We have to create our own head cannons because we didn't get it on screen and it's frustrating because we know it's part of the story. Picard's in this trend sequence for going to say because he was there.

[00:36:19] There was that personal, you know, loss between the both of them. You know, with Picard, his loss of losing his best friend under his command, he felt guilty. That's why he never told Beverly about how he felt which we're going to be mentioning this next episode.

[00:36:38] So I think with this is just again, just frustration overall. How we could have had more. I mean, this particular scene I understand Jack was already dead at this point but. Other episodes we did not get to get to see them in anything.

[00:37:06] Sarah says that scene is in my story and I mentioned it before. It's a very powerful scene. It's very good. Gates again, played it. Off the charts. I think it was important to know that not only while she had to go and.

[00:37:25] Look at his body in the morgue, but there's also kind of that story of you know how was Wesley told I think. I think, Wesley had mentioned in the bonding that it was Picard that had to tell him that Jack had died.

[00:37:40] So there is that sense of loss and that kind of bonded Picard and Beverly in a way which probably probably led to their love story because of that loss, right? Jack was very, very important to their love story.

[00:37:55] They're probably would never have been one if it wasn't for Jack. I wholeheartedly believe that and it's just another one of those moments that you can kind of be like, you know, that that makes sense right? That's kind of understandable about where.

[00:38:14] Where this was going in but yeah, it's. Again, our technically only Jack and Beverly scene out of the entire series was was him in the morgue.

[00:38:26] Yeah, that's that's fun. But yeah, I think this next one that I'm going to be mentioning here and of course this is going to be a nemacek at out moment because it is super super important.

[00:38:38] Very important attached the big Picard and Beverly episode finally then telling how they feel about each other them sharing a kiss sort of speak.

[00:38:53] Even in attached the first draft was written they were actually supposed to make love for the first time but it was cut out I can understand why the actual final draft ad shown that they were supposed to.

[00:39:05] Cuttle I guess at the campfire so when he went and laid down she kind of crawled in and later head on his shoulder and they fell asleep. That would have been nice to see but again didn't happen.

[00:39:18] I have an original script of attached and it's heartbreaking when you're reading this out. You're like, oh what could have been. But what Larry gets to say the story raises a mystery since Picard didn't know Beverly until after Walker Kiel had introduced her to Jack.

[00:39:37] Her remark that the trio spent more and more time together and play she was with Jack on the stargazer at least initially unless it returned to base often but that seems unlikely.

[00:39:49] Again, there's a continuity problem. Especially by season seven I think they were just trying to bring out more.

[00:39:56] The story that they did not get to tell so with this episode they were kind of just throwing it in our faces. Right. It was all like Beverly Picard boom boom boom all this stuff their feelings Jack.

[00:40:08] She even had mentioned the story that she was talking about a story where you know they took Wesley camping at Bill for Lake and he was throwing mantelies in the fire and they're popping and that's when she felt his guilt.

[00:40:22] This was a very powerful scene because it was that guilt that kept him from telling her how he felt, how he felt about her even after Jack's step.

[00:40:32] She had said why didn't you ever tell me you were in love with me and he said you were married to my best friend.

[00:40:37] I thought it was just a factuation you know hormones whatever but then I realized they were real but I felt guilty because I shouldn't have been feeling about that for my best friends wife.

[00:40:50] So you're starting to put the puzzle pieces together and she even mentioned that's why you didn't want me on the enterprise seven years ago.

[00:40:55] So that's where that first scene that we saw in a caron at far point there looks him because he wanted her to leave he was all like if you don't want to be here and I think bringing that back was perfect because those were on the fans minds right they're always thinking about like well what about this scene why haven't they mentioned it.

[00:41:17] This was the moment again attached attaches my favorite episode I think gates and Patrick together they have amazing chemistry it's a fantastic episode they were able to bounce off each other great.

[00:41:31] I think that's how these emotional moments have these funny moments and I'm glad that Jack was mentioned because that was the whole turning point of this.

[00:41:41] Will they won't they relationship and what was holding them back was Jack Crusher you know I will make an honorable mention in the episode I believe it was.

[00:41:54] When that command like to lieutenant commander had come it was before conspiracy so it was when that admiral was telling the car I think there's a you know something's happening people are changing I don't know what's going on.

[00:42:07] And that because I was remic and he was interviewing everybody and when he got to Beverly he was all like you know tell me how you feel about the captain she's all like we've worked you know I've known him for a very long time and he's like.

[00:42:24] Well, you know everything's confidential you could tell me how you feel she's like what do you mean he's all like being under command with the man who is responsible for your husband's death.

[00:42:35] I remember that scene and I was all like oh no he didn't and Beverly's response was classic where she's like my feelings for captured the card.

[00:42:45] I was irrelevant to the sophistication and none of your business and I was all like drop the mic there we go that's Beverly I loved it I was just I was like I can't believe he did that but I was so happy by her response.

[00:42:59] She didn't feel he was responsible for jacks death but the card did and that plays on later on right so I thought that scene was also very very good so that's an honorable mention because I forgot to write that in the notes but.

[00:43:13] Going back to attached you know they decide to not she decides to not pursue this relationship with them because I felt like she was trying to protect herself.

[00:43:23] Because she was listening to his dreams she was listening to what he was saying he was telling her oh no I'm not loving with you anymore but I'm sure his dreams were saying something else and if he couldn't even pick what was true the what was not she didn't want to put her heart out there especially when she still was hurting over losing jack like if she's still hurting over losing jack how can she be with someone who is constantly at risk right and who doesn't even know what he really wants.

[00:43:50] She needed to give him that time to figure that out so I as much as it hurts us seeing Beverly walk out the door she she did it for the right reasons.

[00:44:02] But yeah I definitely think that was super super important now the last episode that I'm going to mention is of course. Turnies end. This has nothing to do with Beverly and Jack I have to do with Wesley this was will we eat in.

[00:44:18] Goodbye episode for Wesley because it was season seven and they're trying to wrap up these stories and this is where we kind of go back to the where no one has gone before were. The traveler was saying that Wesley was special.

[00:44:32] Traveler comes back but he uses Jack as I found a kind of cruel he used jack's image to try and get Wesley to join him. That's how I felt. People in the chat can you know say something differently but.

[00:44:51] Because he was really trying to get Wesley to like become a traveler he used Jack as a way for him to like oh mentally star fleet I'm not going to do this I'm going to do you know.

[00:45:02] And that's why he had that confrontation with Beverly in his quarters where she's all like so you had an image of your father and now you know you're just packing your bags and.

[00:45:11] It was important for Wesley to decide what was best for him which is true but I don't I didn't like how the traveler approached it but again. We didn't get much for this being will's final episode and even having Doug return to play Jack pressure in his little.

[00:45:34] During sequence. I wish there was a conversation with Beverly and Wesley talking about Jack kind of how we had in the bonding. That would have been a nice full circle moment especially as a wrapping up these stories.

[00:45:50] But they could have had another moment together about losing Jack and how it affected him and how he's now trying to honor his father in a different way right.

[00:46:02] Another honorable mention real quick that just kind of clicked into my head was true cue which was in season six and that was with Amanda who finds out that she's a cue and she was on the enterprise as a student under Beverly's you know under Beverly's care.

[00:46:20] And she was talking about losing her parents and Beverly had let her know that she had lost her husband and I remember there was a moment.

[00:46:28] Where Amanda had asked like I could do whatever I want what would you do if you had these powers and you know Beverly said like I will heal the sick you know I would do that and Amanda's all like would you bring your husband back and I loved this moment because Beverly.

[00:46:49] Amanda I don't know and she says I don't know if I can make that decision unless I was faced with it.

[00:46:59] I like that because I feel the reason why Beverly is who she is at this point is because of her loss of Jack if she were to bring Jack back.

[00:47:12] How he was the moment he died to how she is now they would have been to do totally different people right and I kind of feel like Beverly felt like she would be dishonoring his memory.

[00:47:25] By bringing him back in that moment because it wouldn't have been the same she wasn't the same Beverly who was married to Jack she had grown she was older she was wiser and so it's those moments where she just.

[00:47:41] As much as she would love to have Jack back she just knew it wasn't going to be the same and she doesn't want to tarnish that memory of him.

[00:47:52] Of course we know she is in love with the card but I don't think that was the biggest reason why she had said that I think it was just because she was trying to honor what she had and she wanted to keep that's close to her.

[00:48:06] When it comes back to Wesley and journeys end. Again, you know these weren't the words of Jack Crusher these were the words of the traveler to like guide Wesley to become a traveler. So it almost kind of felt like the traveler manipulated Wesley in a way and.

[00:48:27] Beverly didn't really see that because she didn't know that this was happening she didn't know the traveler was involved and I don't at this point I don't even think Wesley did either.

[00:48:37] But I again really wish we could have had a moment where they did talk about Jack that they didn't abandon that was the only time we actually had that moment.

[00:48:48] And so the lack of story especially with something that was so important to the characters that's where it's just struggled with me a little bit but. It is what it is this is this is why we have fan fiction as start track the next generation ended you know.

[00:49:06] We knew that there were kind of going in that direction with the card and Beverly. And then stopped at the movies but when start track the card happened.

[00:49:16] That's where I got interesting now I feel very vindicated here because when the thought that Beverly had the card son was an idea. And I was like, you know everyone was trying to like what was the secret why was she gone.

[00:49:31] I had said if there was a son involved I wish I hope his name is Jack a lot of fans were like no, no that's weird that's her first husband and I was like yeah, but that was the whole reason why they were together was because of Jack pressure and it will be honoring his memory and no one thought that would be a good idea.

[00:49:49] But sure enough it was because here's Jack pressure. And I was so happy because that was Terry's way of honoring Jack he had mentioned that an interview who's all like Jack pressure was very important to their story.

[00:50:06] It was the cards guilds you know Beverly's loss, you know here they are they came together at some point in the story. We like to say that was in between each movie right so every time the movie started they had just broken up.

[00:50:19] Here she has his son and it is to not only honor her first husband who was the card's best friend.

[00:50:29] But I think Gates had said something in an interview where it was also her way of like yes she was hiding Jack but it was also her way of being like hey, the card if you ever know that you have a son here it is and this was a really really good way to bring Jack into the story.

[00:50:49] I know they brought Jack in the story is no one scenario. So he was having the bar moment with Jack, the card was and he was talking a story about Jack and it was a story that Beverly apparently knew and.

[00:51:06] It was nice that they kind of brought that in it was just showing how you know Jack met to Picard he says you know because Jack made the joke of like.

[00:51:15] I know she didn't hate you but to name me after her first husband who was like that's just so weird which was representing a lot of the fans they were like, oh that's so weird.

[00:51:24] But Picard was all like yeah, but he was my best friend I would have done the same like he just knew he approved it it was like Jack pressure perfect that's exactly what I've would have wanted us to name our son right so.

[00:51:38] Love that they did this love that his name is Jack love that it's still Jack pressure he didn't take Picard's name he is you know. He was raised by his mom he is representing the Crusher family even though you know.

[00:51:51] Crusher is not even his family name like he's not related to Jack Crusher at all this was his mother's made married name.

[00:51:59] He's represented that family in the best way possible he's represented his brother who he never from what we know never met and I think that was the best way to just kind of put all together like this is the you know Jack Crusher 2.0 right so.

[00:52:13] I love that they did this and it just makes me happy that Jack Crusher was you know because they only had 10 episodes so at least we got some kind of story in there.

[00:52:25] But yeah, that's kind of it guys like I kind of threw out all those episodes that we had mentions are lack thereof and which we had this wish we had that if you know even later on if you when you watch this if you want to.

[00:52:41] To eat me or even write on Instagram feel free for your thoughts I think this is just. Jack Crusher was super important to the story and I just wish we had more and you know I know everyone's really guaranteed hope for start trick legacy.

[00:52:59] I would love to see captain seven and Rafi and Jack their stories and stuff and if they were to bring that going I would love to see.

[00:53:10] That Jack you know the OG jack would be mentioned in some way from Beverly I would really like to see a story with Beverly and Jack that was kind of our biggest issue we never really got that we got little snippets we got little mentions but nothing of you know where she's talking that story about you know jack did this like.

[00:53:29] Jack would jack in ten forward so again that's kind of where I would hope we would get something Sarah has a comment she says do you think though when he was posted on the enterprise G that he had hyphen his name to crush her.

[00:53:45] I think that I believe Terry brought up that it's just pressure I don't know how accurate that is obviously but I you know they still called him Jack Crusher and I think that's just how they're going to continue it.

[00:54:05] I could change later on I don't know but I think it's just it's just pressure could maybe it's a hard pressure maybe he's still just keeping that as his last name but he threw a card and they're like a middle name I don't know it's a head cannon we can.

[00:54:19] Anyone can think of what they want and that's just how it goes so yeah I think this was lots of fun I hope I was kind of on the same page with you guys like I said.

[00:54:32] Feel free to comment on Twitter or Instagram with your thoughts about jack and Beverly story and yeah this was lots of fun I do want to thank Larry Nemichek even though he has nothing to do with his life but got to got to live his book I I've met Larry a couple of times he is awesome you know it's just been.

[00:54:55] So helpful to learn from his book so thank you Larry for all your hard work I interviewed you once from the podcast and you were delight so yes thank you so much and of course thanks to Gates but fatten because.

[00:55:08] There will be no Beverly Crusher without her so yeah I appreciate you guys thank you for those who had watched and chimed in Sarah thank you so much for joining me next time hope we have some more.

[00:55:21] Crusher combo fun where we crush in the conversation when a episode of time alright guys bye.